Staying on topic- threads in general

FarNorth

I'm baffled by your attitude trisher.

It’s nothing if not consistent, though. Women come last every time, and their rights count for nothing.

I'm baffled by your attitude trisher.

As I have said of you read the accounts the pattern of behaviour seems to follow a specific pattern. Its us a very specific demographic.

Who can say unless they've experienced it trisher? but surely a woman who finds herself in this position has the right to identify as and been known as a widow, just as her husband has the right to identify as and be known as a woman.

That really is a daft comparison trisher, whether it’s worse if your husband transitions, or threatens/tries to kill you.
I can identify two trans women who threatened their wives and children regularly. Doesn’t mean all trans people do that but it does mean some trans people are capable of behaving abusively, just like everyone else

FarNorth

^offered the opportunity to have their husbands back but as a transwoman^

If you go to the transwidows website, and read some of their accounts of what happened, you'll see it's not as simple as that.
The transwoman is, often, not the person they believed they had married.

A lot of women find that out FarNorth when they get beaten up, when they contract a sexual disease because their husband is promiscuous, when he walks out one day and never comes b back. None of those women are or have ever claimed to be widows. They divorce the man and are divorcees. There's thousands of them. Is it really worse if your huband transitions than if he threatens, or even tries to kill you?

oops that should be know better

Galaxy

I havent supported Oxfam since the sexual abuse allegations.

I really wanted to withdraw support then, but convinced myself the good they can do just tipped the balance. This is the final straw and I've emailed them to tell them why all support (including a bequest in a will) is now being withdrawn.

It's ridiculous Lucca and I'm annoyed that Oxfam have done this. They should no better, working in countries where women and girls have little or no rights. It's a disgrace.

I havent supported Oxfam since the sexual abuse allegations.

The game is available from Wordery, who also have many books celebrating women's achievements.

wordery.com/wonder-women-isabel-thomas-9781786272379?cTrk=MTg5NzI2NjIxfDYxNzY4ZTk3NjA5YjU6MToyOjYxNzY4ZTVkYjk3OGYwLjM4MDg1MzMwOjc3ZWNhMGZl

offered the opportunity to have their husbands back but as a transwoman

If you go to the transwidows website, and read some of their accounts of what happened, you'll see it's not as simple as that.
The transwoman is, often, not the person they believed they had married.

if a transwoman is used for a man who has changed gender (and I think many of you want this)
No. I don't.
I want them to be called men.
Calling them transwomen is a compromise since they want to be differentiated from other men.

Withdrawing that game is pathetic.

That is utterly ridiculous, Lucca.

This should be on mainstream news so that everyone can see the extent of the erasure of the female sex. I don't think that a lot of people realise the extent of the patriarchal hatred of women.

Lucca

Slightly veering but not totally off…. What do we think about this story. I was annoyed by it and wondered if a book called Men who changed the world (for example) would also be withdrawn. Why is all about the “women” question ?

Because women, adult human females, are not allowed anything that's just about them, or celebrates their achievements. They are the only category that must shove up, shut up and do as they're told.
I'm sick to death of this capitulation time after time. Oxfam can go whistle for any more donations from me, in fact I'm trying now to support charities that know what a woman is, and are happy to say so. There are several fistula charities that help women in countries where there is poor or little obstetric care with life-changing repair surgery.

Well this has wandered far from the original post hasn’t it.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202110/medium-917873-31241aed-bc94-4d61-8e88-150580babe91.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202110/medium-548294-3ed9a9d6-d8db-49d8-84df-f8a2ffa109f1.png

Slightly veering but not totally off…. What do we think about this story. I was annoyed by it and wondered if a book called Men who changed the world (for example) would also be withdrawn. Why is all about the “women” question ?

I think if we are discussing hypothetical situations it is worth noting that pretty much all the accounts of the transwidows on MN feature some form of abusive behaviour, ranging from sexual abuse to financial and emotional abuse, you are talking about a very specific cohort before you wish it on other women.

Your friends' situation sounds very difficult, but wouldn't be less so if they heard about a woman who had also lost her husband in another way.

I'm not arguing for the term one way or another, but I can very definitely see the double standards of denying women the right to keep the terminology that they are used to meaning 'adult human female', whilst simultaneously denying women who have lost their husbands the right to co-opt a word that refers to a woman who has lost her husband, and adapt it to their own circumstances.

It would be so much easier if women just did as men told them and shut up, wouldn't it?

Well strictly speaking and using prefixes as an agreed term if a transwoman is used for a man who has changed gender (and I think many of you want this) and transman for a woman who has changed gender, then a transwidow must by definition be a widow who has changed gender. But I dont think that's what they mean by it.
I'm sure if my 2 friends whose husbands died recently one after nearly 60 years of marriage and the other tragically young were offered the opportunity to have their husbands back but as a transwoman both of them would jump at the chance. They haven't that choice of course.

trisher

Isn't it funny how when the argument is lost - transwidows are not widows and there is nothing misogynistic in that. The subject is someohow changed and deflected into some other area.
Logically speaking anyway if trans is a person who is changing or challenging gender norms a transwidow should be a man who has lost a partner and changed gender.

So what is your argument? That the term 'widow' already has a discrete meaning, and it would diminish that meaning if the term is used (even when adapted) to include a group that does not strictly meet the definition?

That's ringing bells for me . . .

The subject has not been changed or deflected trisher.
Several points are being discussed at the same time, by you as well as by others.
Which of course you know.

Logically speaking anyway if trans is a person who is changing or challenging gender norms a transwidow should be a man who has lost a partner and changed gender. this would only apply if we stick to the way transpeople decided language should be used. Initially there was a lot of confusion over the terminology and many people thought a transwoman was a biological woman who identified as a man. There are people outside the trans movement, language is theirs too.

No it's just been deflected from funny isn't it.