Staying on topic- threads in general

If we are changing language like this - that is a woman whose husband has transitioned has the right to call herself a widow because she feels like one, then logically speaking a transwoman has the right to claim she has the same reproductive organs as a birth woman because she feels she has them, even if she still has a penis.

Chewbacca

^I despair?^

Me too Doodledog.

Me too! Words apparently have meanings set in stone.......except when they don't ???

trisher

Rosie51 a biological woman whose husband dies is a widow. A biological man whose wife dies is a widower.
Nothing sexist about it
A person of either sex who divorces their partner is a divorcee.
If relationship breaks up because one partner transitions and there is a divorce and they are divorcees regardless of sex or gender.
Some people see discrimination in everything no matter how equal the circumstances.

Why does none of this depend on how they present, and whether their political align with yours?

VioletSky

Would transwidows still refer to themselves that way if they accepted trans people in general?

Please remember this is a question not a statement because the only stories I have come across were on a website for those who do not include trans people

Who knows? It’s not possible to speak for all of them, is it?

Nobody is suggesting that a niche term should necessarily be used by all people in that situation, just saying that the option should be open, if we are busy changing the language to incorporate all eventualities.

Rosie51 a biological woman whose husband dies is a widow. A biological man whose wife dies is a widower.
Nothing sexist about it
A person of either sex who divorces their partner is a divorcee.
If relationship breaks up because one partner transitions and there is a divorce and they are divorcees regardless of sex or gender.
Some people see discrimination in everything no matter how equal the circumstances.

Would transwidows still refer to themselves that way if they accepted trans people in general?

Please remember this is a question not a statement because the only stories I have come across were on a website for those who do not include trans people

I despair?

Me too Doodledog.

trisher

FarNorth

They also can't be used by medical staff, going by the ones I have heard on the radio recently, talking about people with a cervix etc.

That's transmen FarNorth who don't want to be called women.

Funny that women whose husbands transition can be widows but women who transition can't even use the term "person with a cervix".
Tells you something about attitudes to transitioning doesn't it.

You are so transparent, transmen get to be referred to by their preferred terms, transwomen get to be referred to by their preferred terms. Biological women get to be referred to by anything anybody else decides, shove up, shut up, do as you're told!

trisher Transwidows is a term for those women who feel their husband is 'dead' to them when he decides he's always been a woman. Perhaps they should just drop the trans part, and refer to themselves as widows on account of their partner deciding their previous name and gender is now 'dead', the heterosexual marriage they entered into is dead, and the law should acknowledge them as such. That would be true inclusivity. In other situations they can refer to themselves as transwidows or the much rarer transwidowers.

FarNorth

They also can't be used by medical staff, going by the ones I have heard on the radio recently, talking about people with a cervix etc.

That's transmen FarNorth who don't want to be called women.

Funny that women whose husbands transition can be widows but women who transition can't even use the term "person with a cervix".
Tells you something about attitudes to transitioning doesn't it.

Hang on trisher..... in order to be "inclusive" we have to accept:

A transwoman is a woman and has every right to be referred to as such because that's what they feel comfortable with.
A transman is a man and has every right to be referred to as such because that's what they feel comfortable with.

A transwidow has no right to be referred to as such no matter how comfortable they are with it.

Do you make this stuff up as you go along?

Okay, time for a random pic.

Never mind, men don't have to worry about any of this 'inclusive' stuff. That's good news, isn't it.
Or maybe not if prostate-havers who don't identify as men don't get the message.


"Yearly prostate checks benefit some men aged 40 plus"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58952471

They also can't be used by medical staff, going by the ones I have heard on the radio recently, talking about people with a cervix etc.

I despair?

No one has "forbidden" any terms. They can be used to any one personally. They just can't be included in policies because they are not inclusive and inclusivity matters.

I am not the one advocating that words need to be included or they will be abolished. I'm the one saying you can use what you wish but documents and policies need to use inclusive terms. Surely you can see that that means I believe words are important. Just because I don't subscribe to the narrow terms sometimes used doesn't mean I think words are not important. They are but they must be inclusive.

So if they need to be more inclusive trisher why do you struggle to allow women, who find themselves in a position beyond their control, whatever they want to call themselves?

OK thank you

No, VS, I don't think anyone is saying such a thing about you.

no one has said women can't be called breast feeders

I think breast-feeding mothers is the term that used to be used, but is now forbidden.

they would be using a word which has another meaning

Just like the word 'woman' now has another meaning, right?

Chewbacca

So the use of words, and their meanings and how they're used, is important afterall trisher? I wish you'd make your mind up.

Of course the use of words is important Chewbacca which is why they need to become more inclusive.

Am I being accused of mysogyny?

Because I thought we all agreed that that's sort of personal insult is not OK.

It's deeply hurtful.

Can you please clarify, trisher? Is language and definitions important to you or not?

If someone identifies as a transwidow does that not mean that she is one? TWATW?

Rosie51

If a man identifies as a woman or vice versa, it's acceptance without exception, no debate. If a woman whose husband decides he really has been a woman all his life identifies as a transwidow suddenly she's evil incarnate, appropriating a 'real' widow's grief.
The Tra's want to remove the spousal exit clause from the GRA which allows a woman to be divorced from her husband before he can gain a GRC. Once again the transwoman's wants are paramount and the reluctant spouse would be forced to divorce from a same sex marriage they never willingly or knowingly entered. Biological women count for less than the dogsh*t on your shoe.

I would apply exactly the same beliefs t a man who claimed to be a transwidower Rosie51 there is no attack on women. Nor is anyone evil incarnate. Nor do I underestimate the damage and the despair that can result from any relationship break up. But as I said there is always the hope of some sort of new relatonship and no widow or widower has that hope.