The image of the royal family

Alegrias1

Things could be worse. Tycho Brahe (famously ancestor of Judi Dench, we now know) died of a kidney problem after he needed to use the toilet but protocol forbade him from leaving the dining table.

Mind you, he also had a brass nose and a pet elk, so he's not really a good example of a normal person.

Veering wildly off topic, I watched this programme. I’ve never seen it before and I can’t imagine it would work with someone less entertaining than Judi Dench but two things surprised me.

Although maybe she was acting for dramatic effect: I was slightly surprised that she didn’t seem to have heard of Tycho Brahe (and also by the fact that I heard no mention of his nose), but much more surprised by the length of time it took her to connect Helsingør to Elsinore.

Yes of course Annie, maybe I’m naive, but if something is reported over and over again, by different people/organisations etc then I tend to think there’s going to be truth in there. The rules of etiquette that all members of the royal family must follow were printed in The Independent (I found that courtesy of Mr Google too) but there’s a lot of information out there for anyone who’s interested.

Germanshepherdsmum

‘Sources in the royal household’ could be the loo cleaners.

It was actually Paul Burrell, so less reliable.

But it's an interesting general point - there seem to be many people here who claim to know a lot about the queen and even what she thinks, so they could maybe go to their sources and ask.

‘Sources in the royal household’ could be the loo cleaners.

I went and had a look at Debrett's to see if there was anything there. It wouldn't let me access the relevant bits.

I guess I'm a bit too common. ?

maddyone I too have problems posting links but in fairness
can we say ‘the Queen does etc’ or ‘it’s reported the Queen does etc’ ?

Petra Hello Magazine and The Express !

Good posts Gabrielle .

I give up. I need an idiot’s guide to posting links. Anyway a simple google search will provide plenty of information about curtseying protocols. People can believe or disbelieve, but it seems unlikely that The Telegraph, The Express, The Mail, Yahoo News and countless others would all report barefaced lies.

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Anniebach

Would like to see the links re guests not permitted to eat if the Queen stopped eating.

And a link where the palace announced there would be change
in the curtsying protocol, not a link to a royal reporter please or from the republican website.

Well I don't know how reliable these reasearch journals are, but the eating thing's been widely reported in the Express, Hello magazine and Southern Living.

I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them but they claim sources in the royal household.

Anyone up for a FOI request?

I’m neither a republican nor a monarchist. I’ve had a foot in both camps for years because I can see advantages and disadvantages to both systems. I’ll have a root round for some evidence for you Annie, but I have to warn you that I’m rubbish at posting links, so rubbish in fact, that I’ve never been able to do it. I need an idiot’s guide I think.
Anyway, I’ve just returned from a visit to the dentist, and a little shopping trip, and I’m now sitting here with a nice cup of tea, so I’ll have a look for you.

Would like to see the links re guests not permitted to eat if the Queen stopped eating.

And a link where the palace announced there would be change
in the curtsying protocol, not a link to a royal reporter please or from the republican website.

Things could be worse. Tycho Brahe (famously ancestor of Judi Dench, we now know) died of a kidney problem after he needed to use the toilet but protocol forbade him from leaving the dining table.

Mind you, he also had a brass nose and a pet elk, so he's not really a good example of a normal person.

Alegrias1

I'm sure there are some monarchists who would agree that asking the President of the US (for example) to stop eating and toddle off to bed just because the Queen has, is a little bit anachronistic.

Not the same bed, I trust? ?

I’ll get me coat.

Would the president of the US holidayed at Balmoral ?

I do not believe that guests at state banquets are
treated as claimed

I'm sure there are some monarchists who would agree that asking the President of the US (for example) to stop eating and toddle off to bed just because the Queen has, is a little bit anachronistic.

I understand the views of republicans but do not agree

Yes, I agree with you Galaxy.

Cross post maddy

Sorry but it absolutely does impact on the country, it entrenches the idea of class and that some people are more than others. It isnt just the family everyone who meets her is expected to bow there is vast social pressure for people to behave differently towards the royal family than anyone else.

It’s not just family though Annie, visiting Heads of State at banquets, and others at banquets, also visitors to Balmoral in particular, they’re not all family. People should be able to finish their meal, and adults choose when they go to bed. In any case, it’s not a very ‘modern’ look for the country. The UK needs to be seen to be part of the modern world, not a backwater that can’t move forward. That’s the way forward for trade and good relations in the wider world. Look how Saudi Arabia is viewed by the world, not that we’re still executing people or cutting hands off, but we need to be seen as part of the modern world. Some tradition is good, but not even able to finish your meal is ridiculous.
Remember the outcry when Trump had the audacity to walk in front of the Queen ? Or Meghan in front of Harry? These are examples that show that the monarchy needs to be modernised. Of course, it will always be rude to push in front of other people, but a wife in front of her husband isn’t allowed. Why? Because he’s a Prince!

May be absurd but it makes not a jot to the country , families
have their own traditions .

It isn’t their choice of bedtime, it’s the rule that when in the company of the Queen, neither her family nor any other guest, is allowed to ‘retire’ before she does, and when she puts her knife and fork down, so must everyone else, regardless of whether they have finished their meal or not. I’m sure the Queen will try behave reasonably in these circumstances, but the fact remains that these outdated rules still apply, and the Queen hasn’t got rid of them. In fact she made the curtseying rules more difficult to follow only a couple of years ago. A non blood Princess ie Catherine, must curtesy to a blood Princess ie Eugenie, unless the non blood Princess is with her husband, in which case the blood Princess must curtesy to the non blood Princess, because of her husband’s higher rank. Is anyone seriously going to tell me that this isn’t absurd?

I disagree, how families behave in their own homes is for them
to decide.

Why should their choice of bedtime affect their knowledge of
what goes on in the country.

maddyone

I do hope that the monarchy will modernise when Charles is on the throne. All this walking in order, curtseying and bowing, going to bed when the Queen goes to bed, stopping eating when she does, five changes of clothes in a day at Sandringham; it’s all out of the dim and distant past. It’s time it’s changed. How can the monarch relate to the ordinary people with all those protocols that treat the monarch as if she/he were God himself. They are ordinary people just like the rest of us, mortals like us. The divine right of kings is gone.

I Totally agree with everything you have said maddyone
We come into the world the same way and go out the same way nobody is better than anyone else, I think William would do a better job of modernising than Charles