What about female sex offenders who assault men? ( Another trans thread)

FarNorth

Female-bodied prisoners who identify as men are never put into male prison.
Clearly the risks of mixed-sex imprisonment are suddenly remembered then.

Yup. Funny that.

Female-bodied prisoners who identify as men are never put into male prison.
Clearly the risks of mixed-sex imprisonment are suddenly remembered then.

I think women can be sex offenders, I don't think they always offend against children, they pick the vulnerable.

That ties in with the idea that sex crimes are about power, though, so it is still the case that a male-bodied person in a female jail is likely to pose more of a risk than a female-bodied person in a male one.

theworriedwell

Doodledog

It's clutching at straws to say that female sex offenders exist and claim that policy should be centred around that. Of course they exist, but they are few and far between, and the only ones I can think of (although I'm no expert on the subject) have committed crimes against children, rather than men, and in any case they wouldn't be in a male prison. A woman who has sexually abused children would be segregated for her own safety in a woman's prison.

Isn't it a widely held view that sex crimes are about power, rather than sex, so in most cases they are carried out by the strong on the weak? It doesn't surprise me, therefore, that the numbers of transwomen sex offenders will be greater than the number of women imprisoned for sex offences. Not only that, the number of male violent criminals is far greater than the number of female ones, and the number of assaults by men on women is far greater than the other way round.

For all of those reasons, plus the fact that the majority of transwomen are not medically transitioned, so have penises and male hormones, it makes no sense at all to house them in female prisons.

It may well be the case that transwomen are at risk in male prisons, but I can see no reason why the answer to that should be to house them in female ones, particularly if they have been convicted of sex crimes or crimes of violence. What sort of logic, other than one based on misogyny, would see that as a good idea?

One of my kids is a nurse, out of their qualifying class they have only heard of one who is a convicted sex offender. It was a woman, she was a learning disability nurse and the first case seemed to be swept under the carpet, when the second was discovered it was treated more seriously.

I think women can be sex offenders, I don't think they always offend against children, they pick the vulnerable.

was she abusing patients who had learning disabilities?

*That's YOUR perspective. Not everyone shares it.

Certainly, the younger generation don't.*

Do 'the younger generation' think as one? In my experience they are able to think for themselves and there are as many differences of opinion within a generation as between them.

What constitutes 'the younger generation' anyway? Is it the under 20s? The under 30s? Even the user 50s are younger than me ??.

I know numerous people in their 20s (my children's friends and through my work) who are gender critical. Don't they count as the younger generation?

Sorry FarNorth, I misunderstood you.

There are many subjects on GN that get covered repeatedly in different threads. People see different articles or they think about a particular aspect or a previous thread has got lost in the ether of time and someone starts another one. No subject seems pointless really even if being repeated. Quite a few subjects do get repeated because of various reasons, seems fine and also inevitable!

Thank you, Iam64.

Here's the link

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1468-5922.12711

Mollygo I think that transwomen prisoners should be housed safely, but not in women's prisons.

I don't know how you got the impression that I think the opposite of that.

Apologies for my inability to link but I’ll give details for anyone interested in a case study into gender detransistion. The author is Lisa Marchiano, published in Wiley online library on 10.11.21. It’s based on a young woman who pursued gender transition but after 2 years returned to identifying as female after two years on testosterone.
The author details the increase in transition and detransition. She acknowledges one case can’t represent the full range of issues involved but it does depict the implications of unaddressed psychological complexities in gender transition.

But that’s not the answer GJ. Science says you exist as a human, male female or whatever. So you are saying you are choosing which science you accept as correct. Nothing to do with my perspective.
That’s your right to do, but

Doodledog

It's clutching at straws to say that female sex offenders exist and claim that policy should be centred around that. Of course they exist, but they are few and far between, and the only ones I can think of (although I'm no expert on the subject) have committed crimes against children, rather than men, and in any case they wouldn't be in a male prison. A woman who has sexually abused children would be segregated for her own safety in a woman's prison.

Isn't it a widely held view that sex crimes are about power, rather than sex, so in most cases they are carried out by the strong on the weak? It doesn't surprise me, therefore, that the numbers of transwomen sex offenders will be greater than the number of women imprisoned for sex offences. Not only that, the number of male violent criminals is far greater than the number of female ones, and the number of assaults by men on women is far greater than the other way round.

For all of those reasons, plus the fact that the majority of transwomen are not medically transitioned, so have penises and male hormones, it makes no sense at all to house them in female prisons.

It may well be the case that transwomen are at risk in male prisons, but I can see no reason why the answer to that should be to house them in female ones, particularly if they have been convicted of sex crimes or crimes of violence. What sort of logic, other than one based on misogyny, would see that as a good idea?

One of my kids is a nurse, out of their qualifying class they have only heard of one who is a convicted sex offender. It was a woman, she was a learning disability nurse and the first case seemed to be swept under the carpet, when the second was discovered it was treated more seriously.

I think women can be sex offenders, I don't think they always offend against children, they pick the vulnerable.

Mollygo

No GJ it’s the new order which is fake. Science says you exist. Are you choosing which science you like? Are you a real human, male, female or whatever, or are you but a poster of the mind a false creation proceeding from the heat oppressèd brain

That's YOUR perspective. Not everyone shares it.

Certainly, the younger generation don't.

FarNorth-I accept that in women’s prisons, women will encounter female sex offenders.

Have nothing additional to fear fear from TW sex offenders? For some women, just the presence of such is a cause for fear, and that’s before the TW sex offenders do anything.
But they shouldn’t worry. You’re sure they have nothing to fear, so that’s OK.

FarNorth

Thanks for popping by with your valuable opinion on this nanna8

My pleasure.

Mollygo I explained in the opening post, how the two topics are connected.
In particular, the point made by some is that women in prison will encounter female sex offenders and that they have nothing additional to fear from male prisoners (claiming to be women) who may, or may not, have been convicted of sex offences.

The statistics I linked give food for thought on this viewpoint.

You make very good points re the situations of female & male offenders.

GagaJo you do realise that's the exact same argument the antivaxers use? They put 'the science' in quotes too. The contradictory evidence is really based on wants not reality, and is never provably evidence based.

No GJ it’s the new order which is fake. Science says you exist. Are you choosing which science you like? Are you a real human, male, female or whatever, or are you but a poster of the mind a false creation proceeding from the heat oppressèd brain

Nannashirlz

There is a book called The king has no clothes on. Everyone was told the king had an invisible cloak and only one child spoke the truth and said the king as no clothes on lol. That’s what it’s like with trans ppl are telling you what you should see and no one is saying what they actually see. lol

That's your perspective Nannashirlz.

The other persepective is that it is obvious to some of us (non trans people too) that the whole issue is a false one and that the insistence of 'the science' when there is just as much contradictory evidence, is the Trumpian emperor desperately trying to cling on to the old, fake, order

There is a book called The king has no clothes on. Everyone was told the king had an invisible cloak and only one child spoke the truth and said the king as no clothes on lol. That’s what it’s like with trans ppl are telling you what you should see and no one is saying what they actually see. lol

Sorry about the double post. GN had a hissy for and sent me error messages-whilst posting.

So what about female sex offenders who assault men.
Where does this happen?
Are they given the opportunity to perpetrate further abuse by housing them with men in a male prison?
What is done about it? Are the male victims accused of bigotry if they complain?How are the male victims treated?
Is it suggested that they talk to a transman counsellor to help them reframe their trauma? How is this a trans thread? The only way this could be a trans thread is if the sex offenders were TW who were assaulting the men.

So what about female sex offenders who assault men.
Where does this happen? Are they given the opportunity to perpetrate further abuse by housing them with males in a male prison?
What is done about it? Are the male victims accused of bigotry if they complain?
How are the male victims treated?
Is it suggested that they talk to a transman counsellor to help them reframe their trauma?
How is this a trans thread?
The only way this could be a trans thread is if the sex offenders were TW who were assaulting the men.

Chewbacca

Why, when the thread title tells you exactly what the topic is, would you click on it and then post to complain that you don't like the subject? And if we're going to police which subjects are pointless maybe we should have a cull of the games threads? Or the daily political discussion threads? Or the various relationships and estrangement threads? They've all been discussed at length haven't they? Or maybe, we should just let people start any thread they feel like discussing and those who don't want to join in can just jog on by.

? ? ?. I often wonder why, if threads people don’t like appear, then they have to go into them. Any that don’t appeal to me I pass them by.

I rarely see any aggression on these threads. I see a lot of confusion regarding the acceptance of those who are transgender, compared with ill thought out changes in law. The former should be a given, the latter should be carefully considered. We don't live in a world of fluffy kittens and roses There are some mad, bad people out there who will use any agenda to gain access to people they want to abuse. Including women in prison.