NHS

Well she may well have a point. Why would you find it difficult to talk with her since?

Having worked in the field for 2 decades, I have first hand experience of NHS budgets and how they're used. Your sister isn't as wrong as you think she is.

I have a few family members and friends working frontline NHS who’ve said similar things and I pointed out that turkeys don’t vote for Christmas!

I’ve also worked in places where HR decided on redundancies in different departments but never their own! ‘Twas ever thus.

I’m afraid I’ve thought that for a long time. Too many (highly paid) chiefs etc. Why on earth would you find it difficult to talk to her (assuming you’re not one of the pen pushers)? I really don’t understand where you’re coming from.

DH worked for the NHS for almost 50 years and by the time he retired had seen the team managing his work go from 1 person to about 12. One of them even asked what his job title actually meant.

My sister works for the NHS in admin. She tells some stories of too many managers and waste that would make your hair curl.

I was placed in the "Management Corridor" of our local hospital when temping and it was the only placement I asked to be removed from!! Couldn't believe the wastage I was seeing and the attitude of staff. Funnily enough I wasn't asked to sign the usual disclosure form so I could have blown the whistle but what was the point? I could see it was entrenched and I was "only the temp"! This was over 7 years ago so I dread to think what the situation is now!!

People always seem to think management isn't needed. Would be chaos without it. The NHS actually spends less on admin/management than other big organisations as a percentage of their budget. It is an easy target.

I was a senior HR manager, I remember having meetings with staff where there would be moans and groans about how things were done. Eventually I suggested they nominated 2 people to come and represent them in HR for a month. Both dropped out within days, it is easy to moan but when you present them with the problem and they are expected to find a solution rather than moan about it they don't seem so keen to be involved.

I'd have asked her what made her say that.

If she can provide some evidence then perhaps you might agree with her. If she can't and you have evidence to the contrary maybe she might see your point.

If she just said it with no evidence then I can see how you might wonder what had made her say it.

I've worked in an HR department where my final job was to make everyone in the department, myself including redundant. We literally turned the lights off on the way out.

I would have agreed with her.

Hear hear theworriedwell ?

I do think she has a point.
I have a friend who is a nurse on an Oncology ward and she said they are so short of staff and resources. She is at breaking point.

theworriedwell

People always seem to think management isn't needed. Would be chaos without it. The NHS actually spends less on admin/management than other big organisations as a percentage of their budget. It is an easy target.

I was a senior HR manager, I remember having meetings with staff where there would be moans and groans about how things were done. Eventually I suggested they nominated 2 people to come and represent them in HR for a month. Both dropped out within days, it is easy to moan but when you present them with the problem and they are expected to find a solution rather than moan about it they don't seem so keen to be involved.

Management of course is needed, surely not layer on layer though. I remember the last massive cut backs in my local trust area. More Nurses were dispatched than managers. In fact two senior Nurses were made managers to save their jobs. So Ward left short, managers became top heavy.

No-one on here would be so stupid as to suggest that management isn’t needed the worriedwell, but we are talking here about an excess of management and the wasting of taxpayers’ money. What admin and management costs the NHS as a percentage of their budget compared to ‘other big organisations’ (point me in the direction of another UK organisation the size of the NHS) is irrelevant. So are your former colleagues who thought they could do everything better. The NHS is wholly funded by the taxpayer and we are entitled to expect our money to be used to best effect with as much as possible going directly to the treatment of patients. The NHS is accountable to each and every one of us for how it spends public money. Organisations in the private sector are accountable to their shareholders. In the case of publicly funded organisations we are those shareholders.

The NHS is struggling overall including managers.
There just isn't enough staff anywhere.
I know of an oncology department which gives people hope when all other treatment has failed has had to stop taking on patients mostly due to lack of managers.

I worked in the NHS as PA to a consultant surgeon.
I agree wholeheartedly about excess of management and misuse of funds.

If you saw misuse of funds, did you report it?

FlexibleFriend

I would have agreed with her.

?
Yes, and in any case, always the best advice with a sister.

I think managers in any organisation are the soft target, people always need somebody to blame rather than looking at the root causes for why organisations struggle. The reason there are so many managers in the NHS is because there are so many targets, standards and performance measures to meet, and the majority of them are from clinical backgrounds themselves. Staff frustrated by the system always blame ‘the management’, that’s how the world works.

Well I have never worked for the NHS and consequently I don’t know whether there’s too much management, or poor use of funding. I’m finding it interesting though, reading just how many on here have worked for the NHS and who believe that money has been wasted.

I would have agreed with your sister. I worked in NHS for some years.

Aren’t there just, maddy. They can’t all be wrong.

Germanshepherdsmum

No-one on here would be so stupid as to suggest that management isn’t needed the worriedwell, but we are talking here about an excess of management and the wasting of taxpayers’ money. What admin and management costs the NHS as a percentage of their budget compared to ‘other big organisations’ (point me in the direction of another UK organisation the size of the NHS) is irrelevant. So are your former colleagues who thought they could do everything better. The NHS is wholly funded by the taxpayer and we are entitled to expect our money to be used to best effect with as much as possible going directly to the treatment of patients. The NHS is accountable to each and every one of us for how it spends public money. Organisations in the private sector are accountable to their shareholders. In the case of publicly funded organisations we are those shareholders.

Doesn't matter if other big companies aren't as big as the NHS if we are looking at a percentage of their budget. The NHS spends 14% of its budget on admin and management. That isn't all fat cat managers, the receptionist when you arrive at the hospital, the Consultants secretary who organises his day and does his correspondence, the clerk on the ward, the payroll dept, the people in HR who are doing recruitment (references/DBS checks/interviews) the purchasing dept getting the supplies that are needed are all in that 14%.

Would you prefer the Consultant Surgeon to take a couple of days a month to run the payroll, one of the Registrars to file the correspondence?

14% is actually quite low for all that and more but of course it is an easy target. My local hospital had a new extension, it cost millions, local people were up in arms as it was a reception area. Well yes the bit they saw was, what they didn't see and didn't want to know about was the new ICU, all the new high tech equipment but no one cared about that because it was something they could kick the NHS about.

Rosalyn69

I worked in the NHS as PA to a consultant surgeon.
I agree wholeheartedly about excess of management and misuse of funds.

You realise you were one of those useless pen pushers that people don't want to pay?