NHS

This is for you Casdon

Your sister is right

This thread is doing my head in, it’s the stuff of myth and legend. Please read the facts.
www.statista.com/statistics/488819/england-nhs-qualified-managing-staff/

FlexibleFriend

I would have agreed with her.

Me to. I know others who work in the NHS who say this and have been saying it for years.

Don't fall out with your sister over something neither of you has any influence over, just different opinions. As others have pointed out you don't know the half of it.

i have thought this for years, get rid of some of the pen pushers and employ more nurses as they are the ones that keep the hospital running...i know we need the doctors and surgeons but after they have done there bit it is left to the nurses to do all the work on the wards.

What she says is so so true. Too many managers from outside the NHS, not enough staff on duty. Bring on the staff, bin the managers. What's your beef with that ????

Bankhurst - your sister is correct, and why on earth you are contemplating not speaking to her beats me. Public service organisations should be flat and responsive to the public they are meant to serve, whereas the NHS is tall (meaning many layers of management) and bureaucratic and that means that different layers of management can hide behind others - quite disgraceful really - always knocking off for breaks and lunch, ensuring that they're on the right side of flexitime, etc., - the medics and nurses however, who do the 'real' work - yes the work the NHS was intended to deliver, struggle to take a break and suffer from moral injury as the vocation they innately feel they are following is thwarted at every corner by management (take the debacle with PPE for instance - management make a blunder and frontline staff face a life and death situation). Bankhurst you need a more open mind - maybe a sit down with your sister and a willing ear might help.

Far too many chiefs and not enough Indians according to my daughter who has been a cardiac nurse for over 20 years. Not sure why you're finding it hard to talk to your sister though. You don't have to agree on everything surely.

A daughter of a friend worked for the NH S and was made redundant. A month or so later she was hired on a contract ( more money) to do exactly the same job. Enough said !

The greedy rich get richer, the genuine poor get poorer, nothing will change.Never been any different.

I have a close relative who was a hospital doctor for the NHS. He would agree with your sister.

23,500 migrants have crossed the channel so far this year. This is only the ones who have come by boat. Without all the thousands who are arriving by other means.

Almost every organizations have waste. Government or otherwise. It is unavoidable. More important though is the relationship with your sister. You are always going to have different perspectives on things. Easier to move on to topics that you agree on. Not that you can't tackle things that you don't, but if this upsets you so much, you really should.

Some of the information on this thread is misleading. An average NHS consultant earns £95-£100,000 pa. In a Trust you would have the non clinical directors on similar salaries, but not other managers. I fail to see how a huge and complex organisation could attract people at director level unless they paid that salary level.

Maybe she does have a point, you won't see much evidence of lavish spending in the frontline staff, but what I think really excessive spending is huge amounts on private health providers like Serco etc. who pay consultants figures like £10k a day. the service would be better and cheaper if it were all in-house, as Labour plant to do

Perhaps she is just someone who has a life outside of gransnet.
It's an interesting discussion either way.

Bankhurst......
Why haven't you responded to all these gransetters? Are you a Devils Advocate; 'a person who expresses a contentious opinion in order to provoke debate or test the strength of the opposing arguments'.

I worked for the NHS for 12 years and suffered five re-organisations during that time, and each time, eye wateringly expensive consultants were brought in. These reorganisations caused so much disruption that we had barely settled down before the next one came along. I also saw at least three IT systems cancelled after millions had been spent on them. Worriedwell, I don't know where you live but nurses certainly don't earn anything like £49k where I live!

I totally agree with her. While waiting to see a consultant, we noticed quite a few people just walking up and down carrying a folder and never seem to be going anywhere.
I was also disgusted about the amount of disposable equipment discarded in the wards and this was before Covid arrived.

By what I’ve heard from family members in NHS your sister is correct and many people in the know have said the same.

A case of where facts and not opinions are needed: One would need to compare the amounts spent on administrative staff compared with professionals. These figures would need to be compared with comparative organisations.

are pen pushers the staff in payroll , staff who pay suppliers and check for fraud, or the staff in clinical audit, governance, communications or or the staff in booked admissions or medical records ?
Comments such as this are often made from a genuine place but are so out of touch as the NHS is a huge organisation with a very complicated structure. Funding baffled the best of us in the know!
It is subject to endless scrutiny and regulation, and used as a football by political parties. I have worked in public and private sector and in clinical and non clinical roles within the NHS. Money is one thing but how and where its spent is another. I could list 100s of decision's that could easily have been made differently. Decent engaged and skilled leadership is what's missing.
To finish up - you are both right..

Chewbacca I’ve the same servitude with the NHS and it’s an eye opener isn’t it?

Bankhurst I would of agreed with her as she’s absolutely correct!!