NHS

I worked for the NHS for almost 20 years before retirement. Your sister is right, I'm afraid. There has been a staggering increase in highly paid management whilst the grafters up the sharp end working 12 hour shifts, most of them, have their pay frozen or are drip fed a measly 1-2% in stages. It would be a colossal task but the NHS needs a thorough overhaul from top to bottom by unbiased experts (Boris's mates need not apply). The amount of money wasted would be a real eye-opener.

Alegrias1

Sorry theworriedwell, no lottery prize for you

See I was right never win anything. Well I tell a lie I did win a raffle, it was 47 years ago and I won the playgroup Christmas hamper I was so excited as we hadn't got much money and that hamper was brilliant. Some mums thought it was quite funny, someone offered to drop it off for me on their drive home, I couldn't risk it being out of my sight so I loaded it on the pram.

Maybe I will something on the golden anniversary of that win, only 3 years to go.

Many years ago my husband said, if the NHS was given the whole of the national budget, it still wouldn't be enough. Think I agree with him now. I do believe many of us have the suspicion\knowledge that the admin numbers and salaries are out of keeping with those working at the coal face. Neither of the major political parties is prepared to put in a team of independent business people. We all know why. I've been on a couple of management boards in our county hospital as a volunteer after many years in the business private sector. Honestly, the incompetence and waste would make one weep. There's a built in state of institutionalism which is beyond belief. No rush....No urgency. Tomorrow will always do. When I queried this 'that's how it's done' Such complacency would result in private firms going burst. I do think there is some truth in current government trying to run NHS into the ground towards privatisation but I can't see much advantage in that for them or us. I do believe it is an open wound for them that it was Labour's magnificent baby originally. A masterpiece then, in fact. I've often wondered why, when our system is allegedly admired by the world, no one has copied it. Maybe some country has and I just don't know about it. Family members do tell me there is active competition between adjacent health boards rather than support. If true, I find this sad. Personally, I've been on the receiving end of excellent and tragic service from our NHS but have experienced only it so no practical comparison.

Sorry theworriedwell, no lottery prize for you

Nobody wins anything on here, it isn’t a contest simply points of view from what posters have observed themselves within the NHS in their working lives.

Of course the NHS needs more money - to be spent on clinical staff and the nurses bursary to be reinstated in full. I would ask your sister for her evidence that managers distribute funds with an eye on their own jobs. She’s probably just repeating social media rubbish. I wouldn’t think it was something to fall out over though. My sister and I are at completely opposite ends of the political spectrum and I’m left gawping at some of the claptrap she comes out with. There’s more that unites us than divides us - well, sometimes.

My dd has made a complaint about NHS management this week, after emails which had the potential to cause mental distress to young medics. She was the one brave enough to challenge management. First of all, they denied what had happened, moving the blame to someone else, and then they rescinded the orders they’d sent. ?‍♀️

theworriedwell wins the internet today. I never win anything. do you think I should grasp the moment and buy a lottery ticket?

Casdon

I think managers in any organisation are the soft target, people always need somebody to blame rather than looking at the root causes for why organisations struggle. The reason there are so many managers in the NHS is because there are so many targets, standards and performance measures to meet, and the majority of them are from clinical backgrounds themselves. Staff frustrated by the system always blame ‘the management’, that’s how the world works.

You bring up another interesting point. The NHS gets criticised if managers don't have a clinical background as they don't know about what is involved and they get criticised for taking clinicians off the front line and into management.

A soft target indeed.

theworriedwell

Rosalyn69

I worked in the NHS as PA to a consultant surgeon.
I agree wholeheartedly about excess of management and misuse of funds.

You realise you were one of those useless pen pushers that people don't want to pay?

theworriedwell wins the internet today.

maddyone

Well I have never worked for the NHS and consequently I don’t know whether there’s too much management, or poor use of funding. I’m finding it interesting though, reading just how many on here have worked for the NHS and who believe that money has been wasted.

Well if it helps I have a son and DIL who are working in the NHS, one a mental health nurse and one a Senior Registrar. They think the NHS needs more money and blaming poor use of funds is a cop out.

Rosalyn69

I worked in the NHS as PA to a consultant surgeon.
I agree wholeheartedly about excess of management and misuse of funds.

You realise you were one of those useless pen pushers that people don't want to pay?

Germanshepherdsmum

No-one on here would be so stupid as to suggest that management isn’t needed the worriedwell, but we are talking here about an excess of management and the wasting of taxpayers’ money. What admin and management costs the NHS as a percentage of their budget compared to ‘other big organisations’ (point me in the direction of another UK organisation the size of the NHS) is irrelevant. So are your former colleagues who thought they could do everything better. The NHS is wholly funded by the taxpayer and we are entitled to expect our money to be used to best effect with as much as possible going directly to the treatment of patients. The NHS is accountable to each and every one of us for how it spends public money. Organisations in the private sector are accountable to their shareholders. In the case of publicly funded organisations we are those shareholders.

Doesn't matter if other big companies aren't as big as the NHS if we are looking at a percentage of their budget. The NHS spends 14% of its budget on admin and management. That isn't all fat cat managers, the receptionist when you arrive at the hospital, the Consultants secretary who organises his day and does his correspondence, the clerk on the ward, the payroll dept, the people in HR who are doing recruitment (references/DBS checks/interviews) the purchasing dept getting the supplies that are needed are all in that 14%.

Would you prefer the Consultant Surgeon to take a couple of days a month to run the payroll, one of the Registrars to file the correspondence?

14% is actually quite low for all that and more but of course it is an easy target. My local hospital had a new extension, it cost millions, local people were up in arms as it was a reception area. Well yes the bit they saw was, what they didn't see and didn't want to know about was the new ICU, all the new high tech equipment but no one cared about that because it was something they could kick the NHS about.

Aren’t there just, maddy. They can’t all be wrong.

I would have agreed with your sister. I worked in NHS for some years.

Well I have never worked for the NHS and consequently I don’t know whether there’s too much management, or poor use of funding. I’m finding it interesting though, reading just how many on here have worked for the NHS and who believe that money has been wasted.

I think managers in any organisation are the soft target, people always need somebody to blame rather than looking at the root causes for why organisations struggle. The reason there are so many managers in the NHS is because there are so many targets, standards and performance measures to meet, and the majority of them are from clinical backgrounds themselves. Staff frustrated by the system always blame ‘the management’, that’s how the world works.

FlexibleFriend

I would have agreed with her.

?
Yes, and in any case, always the best advice with a sister.

If you saw misuse of funds, did you report it?

I worked in the NHS as PA to a consultant surgeon.
I agree wholeheartedly about excess of management and misuse of funds.

The NHS is struggling overall including managers.
There just isn't enough staff anywhere.
I know of an oncology department which gives people hope when all other treatment has failed has had to stop taking on patients mostly due to lack of managers.

No-one on here would be so stupid as to suggest that management isn’t needed the worriedwell, but we are talking here about an excess of management and the wasting of taxpayers’ money. What admin and management costs the NHS as a percentage of their budget compared to ‘other big organisations’ (point me in the direction of another UK organisation the size of the NHS) is irrelevant. So are your former colleagues who thought they could do everything better. The NHS is wholly funded by the taxpayer and we are entitled to expect our money to be used to best effect with as much as possible going directly to the treatment of patients. The NHS is accountable to each and every one of us for how it spends public money. Organisations in the private sector are accountable to their shareholders. In the case of publicly funded organisations we are those shareholders.

theworriedwell

People always seem to think management isn't needed. Would be chaos without it. The NHS actually spends less on admin/management than other big organisations as a percentage of their budget. It is an easy target.

I was a senior HR manager, I remember having meetings with staff where there would be moans and groans about how things were done. Eventually I suggested they nominated 2 people to come and represent them in HR for a month. Both dropped out within days, it is easy to moan but when you present them with the problem and they are expected to find a solution rather than moan about it they don't seem so keen to be involved.

Management of course is needed, surely not layer on layer though. I remember the last massive cut backs in my local trust area. More Nurses were dispatched than managers. In fact two senior Nurses were made managers to save their jobs. So Ward left short, managers became top heavy.

I do think she has a point.
I have a friend who is a nurse on an Oncology ward and she said they are so short of staff and resources. She is at breaking point.

Hear hear theworriedwell ?