Shared affections

I think the fact that the OP was asked to visit earlier than planned, speaks volumes. The parents are obviously not coping well and this little boy is bearing the brunt of it. Punishment is not the answer here, as he’s only reacting to obviously feeling left out - and breaking his toys is cruel, unwarranted and will only make things worse.

OP I think you need to talk to your daughter and son in law about what you’ve seen and how disturbed you are. Point out that their behaviour will inevitably cause the boy to resent his sister and it will make things so much worse. While I don’t agree with a PP who said that the boy should stay with you, I think that maybe while you’re staying with them, you could take the lead in involving your grandson in day to day routines with the baby. Hopefully this will make him feel a bit more included as well as strengthening the bond with his baby sister.

Maine52

I am currently visiting them. I was planning a holiday and my daughter asked my to come earlier as she needed help

Well step up and say something, that would 'help'

Oh dear, what a hideous situation!

If you say anything you will probably be accused of interfering and if you say nothing, you will feel horribly guilty.

Not knowing what your relationship with your daughter and son-in-law is like, none of us can really say what you should or should not do.

Who actually breaks the toys? Your daughter or son-in-law, or whichever one of them is present?

Could you speak quietly to either of your grandson's parents when the child is not present?

I would probably say something like

"You probably think I am sticking my nose in your business, but I feel I can't just hold my tongue about this.

All children feel jealous when a new baby arrives. Your five year old son is feeling unloved and insecure and your way of tackling the situation is actually making it worse.

Breaking his toys when he expresses jealousy will only make him hate you all, as he must feel you dislike him to treat him like this.

One of you needs to make time to be with him - doing "big boy things" with him because " we can't do nice big boy things with the baby".

If they are willing to listen to you, suggest too that they involve him in a simple task for the baby. I felt so important at his age because I was allowed to hand Mummy a clean nappy every time she changed my sister's nappy.

My mother divised small tasks I could do - taking the empty feeding bottle out into the kitchen and giving it to the woman who helped in the house , or simply standing it by the sink, handing her not only a clean nappy, but the baby powder as well, helping at bath-time and it didn't matter if I got wet, as I was having a bath the minute my sister was back in her cot. Being allowed to have my bath in the baby bath in front of the Raeburn.

Her attitude was "You're such a good big girl helping Mummy with baby"

Could you suggest something similar to your DD and SIL?

To the first child having a second child is like your husband saying he loves you so much he got another wife and you have to love her too and share your house with her. Not sure I'd be thrilled either.
My eldest grandson was told that the new baby was really his but Mummy and Daddy just helped him look after it. It seemed to work as he accepted his brother quite well.

If a child learns that punishment is the answer (s)he will practise it - on the baby usually. 'You've got what you want so I need to follow the same reasoning!

If one of you is looking after the baby then the other needs to be attentive to the other child - even if the attention is delayed. But promises must be kept.

This is horrible thing to hear about. What's being done to this little boy is awful at various levels. If the parents' cruel behaviour continues, then IMO it is probably going to damage this little boy's future relationship with his sibling, alongside his general well-being and emotional/mental health. I agree with all the concerns voiced here. Perhaps the parents need to see what GNs have written about this?

Sorry I would not sit back and witness this. Surely if you worded it in the right way there would be no need to fall out. Maybe she just needs guiding in the right direction to see what you are seeing. I would be having gentle but positive words if it were my DD.

Maybe when you are there it will take the pressure off your DD and she can concentrate on her 5 year old, letting him know he is very important to her and loved.
After I had my 2nd daughter who cried all the time, I would sit with the baby in a comfy armchair with her sister also on the chair and i would read stories to her. I had also given the eldest a present of a doll with a bottle & pottie as from her baby sister, so she could do with her doll whatever I was doing with the baby. We weren't altogether without jealousy, but it kept it to a minimum and the girls are best of friends now.

That is so cruel. I would have said something. The child is going to become so resentful the longer this goes on.

I am with LUCCA here, it must be something he has made that can be remade, but it is still not a good way to go about it. It would be better to give him time and to help him to do some more. It is awful to read, but I do not understand why you can not say something or do something. If you are there, why don't you use all your expertise and spend most of your time with your grandson. Or better still look after the baby whilst mummy and son No 1 goes for a walk by themselves and have some one to one time. You cannot allow this to go on failing to take action is to collude.

Could you offer to look after the new baby for a little while so that she can spend time with the 5 yo? If he’s going to school perhaps you could collect him and then take baby for a while so that 5yo can tell her about his day? Does she allow him to sit in a chair and hold the baby? We always found that gave pleasure to our older children, they can feel how tiny and helpless the new baby is.

As Shelflife suggests, postnatal depression comes to mind. Especially since daughter asked her mother to come to help, as she was obviously struggling. Could OP suggest a visit to GP?

New mothers in Ireland usually get a visit from public health nurse after a few weeks, but usually only 1 visit and that's really to check on baby, not much about how mother is coping.

As 5 year old is presumably going to school, can OP help with bringing him or picking him up and maybe bring him to playground on way home - keep him out of way of baby as much as possible!

I was out shopping today with daughter who is expecting 3rd baby in January - eldest will be nearly 4 and 2nd nearly 2 when new baby arrives. I asked her what sort of help she'd like, if any. I asked if she would like a few weeks with no visitors to allow new family to bond - as suggested by some parents these days. She responded that she wanted lots of visitors, as 2nd was born during lockdown and no-one could come, and the visitors should take the other 2 off and entertain them!

I would have thought your SIL could spend more time with the little boy.

Wrong on all levels ! Post natal depression springs to mind? Your daughter needs your support and guidance. I wish them well , and hope the situation subsides. Your GS is a little boy , but will seem quite big now she has a tiny baby. This will result in her expecting far too much from her boy. Watch , support and speak to your daughter and SIL. Good luck ?

orher other

I would have to insist on orher solutions.

Really inappropriate way to deal with this very common problem. I would have to say so to my daughter and offer alternative solutions.

Lucca

I’m wondering if “break it up in front of him”. Means it’s a Lego or similar that he has built? Surely they wouldn’t destroy a toy.

That's alful as well, especially if he has put in alot of effort to build it. I truly hope this is not the case.

I’m wondering if “break it up in front of him”. Means it’s a Lego or similar that he has built? Surely they wouldn’t destroy a toy.

This is heartbreaking to read. I do hope you can explain to your daughter and son-in-law that they are making things so much worse. I can understand how exhausted and stressed your daughter is but posters have suggested easy little ways to involve your grandson with the new baby. They need to understand that in effect his loving parents have changed into cruel people who break his toys and that their behaviour will, if continued, destroy the family unit and turn your grandson into something very nasty through no fault of his own.

What the parents are doing is wrong and quite horrific and it would upset me too. Poor little boy, his world has been turned upside down.
Perhaps you could go about it in the opposite way, instead of telling your DD and SIL what they are doing is wrong, try
musing with your daughter just why he is behaving this way and how to help him. Suggest you buy the book to help them to understand his behaviour and to encourage better behaviour (we all know why but it doesn't seem to have occurred to them!).

My first was a very lively toddler and luckily the second one was a placid baby and I bent over backwards to make sure she was involved.
Even so, there are bound to be twinges of jealousy as the usurped takes up Mummy's time.

Good luck

You could ask if they have spoken to their health visitor, assuming they have one, to get some advice on the best way to deal with this. Or you could ask if they have tried any other methods.

I was exhausted when my 2nd child arrived and I realise now that my little toddler son aged 2 was somewhat pushed aside though not deliberately. I discussed this with an elderly friend who gave me some advice - albeit too late for me. She said someone she knew, when baby 2 came along, would ask her toddler for help saying things like, "Oh dear, silly me, I can't find the soap to give the baby a bath... could you help me find it please". That way she involved the little boy and he felt important. This could be something to try.

You cannot prepare an older child for a baby
Yes, you can talk about it and explain, but the child will react the way she/he will.
Time will help adjust and this baby is barely 2 months old.

Suggesting for the older child to stay with OP is even a worse idea.

While breaking a toy is not an ideal action amd I very doubt it will help, we are lacking the full context here.

This is such a small snippet of time that screaming "abuse" and "will mark him for life" is an exaggeration - if this the only incident that has happened.
Again, we are missing the bigger picture that may put this in perspective.

I would concentrate on preserving a good relationship with the parents first.
They called OP to help.
OP may bring it up to her daughter in a kind manner, in private, not accusing her of anything.

Their actions are not going to help your grandson accept his sibling and cause cause the most awful problems. I couldn’t stand by and not say anything. Why didn’t they prepare him for the baby, the new baby should fit into the family and not push siblings away. This is so wrong on many counts and will cause resentment towards the new baby. Could your grandson come to stay with you so that he can have some special time of his own?