How do you deal with persistent unwanted behaviours?

Iam64 lol I can sympathise! In that case it's more self protection than an actual punishment, though it IS punishment too.

When I had teens who refused to get up I misted them a little with the plant mister Singing to them also gets them moving, or maybe that's just my bad singing!

I did that Callistimon to my eldest…. But it wasn’t a dribble. ?… didn’t need to do it again . He’s over 40 now with children of his own and. It’s so funny to hear that he’s threatened to to that to his …

OnwardandUpward

I did take one of mine to school in their pyjamas once. They got dressed on the way and never did it again. I didn't enjoy doing it, though. It was hard as I had to be at work just after dropping them at school, so I really didn't have time to do anything else.

When they were older I used to turn the internet off as a punishment. They got inventive and hacked into the settings on the hub to stop this happening, so one day I went to work with the router in my bag

I dribbled water on my youngest when she wouldn't get up for school. (never had a problem with the others so it was nature, not nurture ?).

Apparently dribbling water on someone who's asleep feels like a deluge!

Thst made me lol onward snd upward. A friend of mine took her landline phone to work after one of her teenagers ran up a huge bill phoning a boy she’d met on holiday

I did take one of mine to school in their pyjamas once. They got dressed on the way and never did it again. I didn't enjoy doing it, though. It was hard as I had to be at work just after dropping them at school, so I really didn't have time to do anything else.

When they were older I used to turn the internet off as a punishment. They got inventive and hacked into the settings on the hub to stop this happening, so one day I went to work with the router in my bag

M0nica

How do you punish parents? You deliberately slowdown everything you are doing when you are aware there is a deadline for going somewhere - like school, or to visit grandparents. You do it with slowness and subtly, cutting your breakfast into very small pieces and then carefully eating it piece by piece and that can take a very long time. Sent to tidy your bedroom, you start by very slowly and very carefully rearranging the dolls house. No point in waiting for a story to end, as soon as you speak it starts up again. There is no limit to a child's inventiveness, when they really put their mind to it.

Well the breakfast is easy. They eat it or go without (with an alternative of sticking it in a box if they are going in a car.) They won't starve. If they are going out they go as they are if they aren't ready. Including school in pyjamas. Bedroom is an area where some flexibility can be allowed with sanctions or the withdrawal of treats if it isn't tidy but no time frame. You listen to one story and then stop them. If they won't stop you walk away. But return with the discipline when they are quiet (it's a good idea to interrupt something they enjoy doing). Adults need to be inventive as well.
That is only punishing parents if the parents choose to regard it as such otherwise it's pretty standard behaviour

I currently work with children with additional needs across a range of education settings, I dont recognise what you are describing peasblossom.

Bridgeit

Breakfast would be taken away & thrown in the bin,… sad to say actions sometimes speak better than words.

Someone I know used to do that with her husband's dinner if he stayed in the pub too long.
It didn't make any difference.

Peasblossom I see what you have picked up on

It should say "very serious consequences can mean exclusion"

Did not say I recommend that or that I would be part of that decision and I did not say that is what I condone.

It can happen, I think it would have to be something extremely serious.

We do have children who have been excluded from other schools and they are doing well

We use many different approaches, techniques and resources to help all children reach their full potential. It's a holistic approach

Peasblossom

Well you were the one who said you would go for exclusion when your approaches failed. Get rid of the problem so that you can enjoy success.

Me, I’d change my approach. I’d acknowledge that it didn’t work for them rather than make them bear the consequences of my determination to be right.

Having been in the era of child centred education I’m increasing flummoxed by the sausage machine approach where the adhering to the theory is more important than than it’s effectiveness. Not just behaviour, reading, Maths, too.

Isn’t the child making the required progress, persist with what’s proved ineffective. Still no progress, increase what’s ineffective. Still not meeting the adult expectations. Must be something wrong. Special Needs obviously.

Anything rather than change the adult opinion and belief. It seems to me that the insistence on one route to behaviour is the same.

There that’s my hobby horse off my chest for the evening

No I didn't, I'm not in charge

Well you were the one who said you would go for exclusion when your approaches failed. Get rid of the problem so that you can enjoy success.

Me, I’d change my approach. I’d acknowledge that it didn’t work for them rather than make them bear the consequences of my determination to be right.

Having been in the era of child centred education I’m increasing flummoxed by the sausage machine approach where the adhering to the theory is more important than than it’s effectiveness. Not just behaviour, reading, Maths, too.

Isn’t the child making the required progress, persist with what’s proved ineffective. Still no progress, increase what’s ineffective. Still not meeting the adult expectations. Must be something wrong. Special Needs obviously.

Anything rather than change the adult opinion and belief. It seems to me that the insistence on one route to behaviour is the same.

There that’s my hobby horse off my chest for the evening

I am dropping out of this thread. it is getting too personal.

MOnica
You forgot and now you’ve made me late for school
I would say my granddaughter punishes my daughter every day ?

I.e , sad that it can sometimes gets to that stage.

Breakfast would be taken away & thrown in the bin,… sad to say actions sometimes speak better than words.

Are we discussing small children or teenagers?

When small, persistence pays off.

When they were teenagers I bought them backpacks and off they went to explore and find their feet.

Peasblossom I love my job, I love children, I respect children and I never give up on a child. There is always something to like or love about all children

If you think those approached are more about my ego than children's best interests then, again, I'm following my training and I've personally had positive results so that's all I can base what I'm saying on

I guess.

Well have to disagree on who is the most important then.

Peasblossom

Mmm. But you and presumably your setting would use exclusion as a consequence, which I never would and never did.

Is sticking to your principles worth more than a child’s future?

I am not sure if you are asking me, because I already answered

How do you punish parents? You deliberately slowdown everything you are doing when you are aware there is a deadline for going somewhere - like school, or to visit grandparents. You do it with slowness and subtly, cutting your breakfast into very small pieces and then carefully eating it piece by piece and that can take a very long time. Sent to tidy your bedroom, you start by very slowly and very carefully rearranging the dolls house. No point in waiting for a story to end, as soon as you speak it starts up again. There is no limit to a child's inventiveness, when they really put their mind to it.

Mmm. But you and presumably your setting would use exclusion as a consequence, which I never would and never did.

Is sticking to your principles worth more than a child’s future?

M0nicaAs you haven't given details I have no idea what you have done. I was making general suggestions which might also help you.
Many children have diversionary tactics when someone is trying to discipline them to avoid listening.
Presumably you have tried just waiting until the story finishes and then give the talk? One of the things it is vital to do is to maintain eye contact. I've seen really confrontational children
back down when the adult has insisted they must look at them whilst they are talking. It means constantly stopping and insisting eye contact is maintained.
I'm not sure what you mean by punishing the parents. I'm tryng to imagine a situation where a child could do that and finding it difficult. My GCs do play games where I'm the naughty one who has to be disciplined(I'm beaten and/or locked in cupboards ) But they are very aware it is a game. Is it a power thing? would giving control of a little area help?

M0nica

violetsky How would you deal with the situation I described where a child considers that if her parents can sanction her when she does things they do not like her doing, then she can sanction them when they do things that she doesn't like and sometimes she does things that are dangerous?

I always explain to children that as an adult it is my job to keep them safe. They are asked what they think is safe and they usually know the answer.

While encouraging them to take risks, like climbing the monkey bars.

If we ask not tell, then children take responsibility for their own behaviour. There's absolutely no point in just shouting "no" without talking it through afterwards but obviously sometimes the "stop what you are doing" must come first.

There are lots of ways we reinforce these things.

One example. They don't really need to line up quietly and wait to be taken into class but the places they line up is also the place where they would line up for a fire drill so when they are asked to line up in any scenario, they do so quietly and they should be looking to the adults for instruction.

Children who struggle to be quiet or not fidgeting about might get the responsibility of being at the front of the line and setting an example for the others.. This gives them something to focus on.

It works very well

Im always on duty outside because building good relationships with children is my strong point and I'm also trained to deal with all the children with medical needs

It helps that I have hobbies in common with them like computer games etc from years of joining in with my children lol

Peasblossom

You see violetsky there is no way I let a child lurch down the road to exclusion with repeated behaviours, when a firm (fierce?) “No” would stop that in its tracks. Which of the two would be the more damaging?

Is constant removal from contact with your peers any better? How does that teach them how to interact in an acceptable way?

Yes talk to them to begin with, remove from the situation if the child has lost control but when talking and removal don’t change the behaviour then what? Continue with what’s proved to be ineffective?

Is it possible that some approaches have more to do with preserving the adults ego and self image than with helping the child?

Well obviously I'm not the one who writes the training for these things but, I do see them work and I do see the difference between how children respond to methods by older staff and younger staff