Do we need the monarchy in this day and and age?

That’s a very good point and I agree.

Ilovecheese

I think it would be best if our monarchy was like many other European royal families. it is not too late for Prince William to retrain to do a proper job.

What? Prince William served 7 years in the Royal Air Force and worked for three years as a helicopter pilot for Search and Rescue carrying out over 150 missions.

True

Well yes BlueBayou but actually hardly anybody who wants a Republic is answering any of my questions about how the end of the Monarchy and the new republic is going to work. How they are going to avoid the tragedies of many Republics now and in history.

It all very airy fairy. I might be more convinced if the strategy was just to ignore the difficult questions.

wasn’t just to ignore

CoolCoco “Our National Anthem is a dirge.”
I’m not disagreeing, just thinking about all the attempts even on GN to get some agreement on what we should have instead. I’ll go with Billy Connolly and say we need a song to the Archers’ theme tune.
Terribull Good post. I don’t buy into that “look what they’ve got, all those palaces etc I don’t either.
I like your last paragraph in particular.
If I could think of a way of levelling out money in the UK, I’d do it, but I doubt if sharing out the RF wealth would make that much difference.
Do you know many people who don’t try to keep what they have and build on it, rather than saying, “I don’t need that. Let someone else have it.”
Should we slate all the multi coat, multi-shoe, multi-hand bag, multi-car, multi house, multi holidays folk because they aren’t sharing their wealth?

Re reform, I agree with Peaseblossom that the most powerful political spectrum usually composed of the wealthiest, would end up calling the shots. I’m not sure how this would improve things.

Peasblossom

Well yes BlueBayou but actually hardly anybody who wants a Republic is answering any of my questions about how the end of the Monarchy and the new republic is going to work. How they are going to avoid the tragedies of many Republics now and in history.

It all very airy fairy. I might be more convinced if the strategy was just to ignore the difficult questions.

Your questions have been answered over and over.

Being a monarchy is a perfectly reasonable position, although it's one I don't agree with.

But pretending people are not answering your questions is not reasonable at all.

As for the "tragedies of many republics", I'm not sure that France, Germany, Italy, Greece, Switzerland... and all the other republics of the world are desperate to get back to being monarchies. Shall we have a list of the "tragedies of monarchies?"

Yes we do. The continuity the monarch gives is hugely important. Our Queen is loved and respected by leaders around the world and the monarch can smooth the way for conversations between countries and leaders in a way that presidents cannot. The monarchy holds our living history, she is the embodiment of it and as such is fascinating to people world wide. The places the monarch resides are working pieces of history that are lived in and kept in working order because of it. Other castles and historical houses like these have fallen into disrepair and crumbled away and have been lost. The monarchy cost us barely anything per person and they bring in huge sums of money from tourists and others. If the Queen wasn’t a monarch, she would still be a very wealthy woman except she would not be working for the nation and commonwealth. We as individuals would be no better off in fact probably worse off if an elected head of state was paid by the public to do all that the monarch does. The Queen is still working for us at the age of 95. I’d have her and her children and grandchildren as head of state any day of the week rather than an elected head of state who could be more interested in the power and prestige than the role.

The Republic of France didn’t come into being without copious amounts of bloodshed over decades, not just the Aristocracy but the people of France and the nations of Europe in the reign of the Empire. Which came about through the deposing of Royalty.

Italy was only united as a Republic through civil war.

The history of theGerman Republic doesn’t bear even small examination.

I think you’ve laid an egg?

But I have asked lots of how is it going to work in practice question and most of them have been ignored or glossed over in idealistic terms. You know the “we will agree to to….”

No we won’t ?

Peaseblossom ??. We can’t even agree that there should be a change!

Peasblossom

But I have asked lots of how is it going to work in practice question and most of them have been ignored or glossed over in idealistic terms. You know the “we will agree to to….”

No we won’t ?

Well we will if we regard this in a grown up manner and don't just keep telling ourselves how lucky we are to have a Head of State who is a nice little old lady that the whole world has heard of.

As I said above, being a monarchist is a perfectly reasonable position. But if at some point most people in the country decide that they don't want a monarchy, they want a Republic, then coming back with an argument about how many people might die, because look at all these historical facts, that is not reasonable.

Interesting that you think its the Republicans who are idealistic.

2507C's defence of a monarchical system is well reasoned, IMHO, and makes good points, S/he didn't resort to childish name calling, either. Cluck, cluck. ?

In answer to OP yes.
Preferable to a President.

I don’t think I called you any names.

I just pointed out the tragedies of some of the republics you named.

You did ask for a list. Would you like a present day one?

You see here’s the problem.

Who wants a republic where you’re not allowed to ask questions or have doubts. Where you’re not allowed to challenge?

Anybody can ask questions. Its a free country. I'm not stopping you. Or making bizarre comments about eggs.

And I had a think. France's journey to becoming a republic was because of their terrible monarchy. Germany became a republic after their king decided it would be nice to take over big bits of Europe. My Italian history isn't good enough to say how they ended up as a Republic. Switzerland's never had a monarch, I think.

And that nice monarchy on the Mediterranean coast of Europe had their king put into place by a fascist dictator.

Both republics and monarchies have good points and they have issues. I personally think the good points of republics outweigh the bad, you may not. But I think that in the UK we have all got so used to having Queen Elizabeth on the throne that we have forgotten that it doesn't always work out well. Just remember that if Andrew had been the first son, everything could have been very different.

Anne and all round, non nonsense good egg. You never hear her moaning and groaning about anything just gets on with it. Edward and Sophie a good support act

Terribull

Perhaps the Royal Family should borrow a phrase from Princess Anne and tell the ungrateful public to Naff Off!
?

volver

Are you a new poster, volver?

If so, welcome!

We can debate ideologies till the cows come home (I’m accumulating a farmyard?) but truthfully I’ve never been into ideology of any kind.

Except perhaps mine is always, ‘Well, how is that going to work”.

I’m not yet convinced that a transition could be achieved without oppression and violence. Until the pro-republicans can show me how it can be achieved practically I will hold with the status quo.

At least we live in a state where these things can be debated openly.

The first vote would have to be a referendum about whether to retain the monarchy or opt for a republican system.

Peasblossom

We can debate ideologies till the cows come home (I’m accumulating a farmyard?) but truthfully I’ve never been into ideology of any kind.

Except perhaps mine is always, ‘Well, how is that going to work”.

I’m not yet convinced that a transition could be achieved without oppression and violence. Until the pro-republicans can show me how it can be achieved practically I will hold with the status quo.

At least we live in a state where these things can be debated openly.

Barbados. Malta. ?

I tend to think along the lines of "this is important, how are we going to make it work?"

Thanks Callistemon

volver

Anybody can ask questions. Its a free country. I'm not stopping you. Or making bizarre comments about eggs.

And I had a think. France's journey to becoming a republic was because of their terrible monarchy. Germany became a republic after their king decided it would be nice to take over big bits of Europe. My Italian history isn't good enough to say how they ended up as a Republic. Switzerland's never had a monarch, I think.

And that nice monarchy on the Mediterranean coast of Europe had their king put into place by a fascist dictator.

Both republics and monarchies have good points and they have issues. I personally think the good points of republics outweigh the bad, you may not. But I think that in the UK we have all got so used to having Queen Elizabeth on the throne that we have forgotten that it doesn't always work out well. Just remember that if Andrew had been the first son, everything could have been very different.

Well he isn’t so that isn’t in question. If but and maybes.

Thanks Callistemon
Perhaps you could ask if you can come to Wales by the Michael Portillo route volver!

Our constitutional problem extends beyond the issue of the monarchy.

The UK is not, not, absolutely not a democracy, no matter how many times we hear politicians claim that it is.

In a democracy no government can take power without the support of the majority of the voters.

The corrupt undemocratic First Past The Post electoral system that we have in the UK means we are ruled by the will of the minority, NOT the majority.

We need to have a wholesale system of constitutional reform.

The first priority must be to change our voting system to proportional representation so that we can become a true democracy.

It would makes sense for a Constitutional Commission to look at our democratic governence and the question of the Head of State - who could be chosen by accident of birth or by some other means.

Yes. Better than a Trump, Biden, Putin style leader.