Vagina Museum

trisher

Rosie51

trisher Presumably you meant your answer at 17:18:19 to Doodledog not me?? We may agree on many aspects but we're not yet interchangeable

Not addressing the whole intersex fiction then, or whether the 100s of genders should qualify for inclusion on passports?

"Do you mind if this person pats you down or would you prefer a man/woman?" Now there's a revolutionary idea! do you go through airports much? Of course I've not flown for almost 3 years but I don't think I've met many airport officials quite so wordy or engaging.
Why would you not outright defend a female employee's right not to have to pat down a male passenger in Galaxy's example?

Well perhaps because I could forsee a situation where there might only be a female employee available. In that case the alternatives would seem to be
that all shifts employed people of both genders (but if there are only women available I don't see why a token man should have a job over a woman)
alternatively
a potential terrorist/drug smuggler could be standing in an airport waiting for a male employee to be contacted. If it is a terrorist would the female employee who refused to search them be responsible when a weapon or bomb went off?
Honestly do you really think I don't look at the absolute complexities of these things?
I may mix up names but actually I do care about these things and don't dismiss everytihng without investigation as it is obvious some people do.

trisherMay I ask if you switch between using sex and gender deliberately? In your rather over the top scenario you are aware I take it that all airports have an armed police presence? Can you honestly imagine a situation where there was one lone female on security, who would be examining a person with a bomb about their person? TV fiction and films aren't reality programs.

Ignoring and denial is negation. That’s what it means. Ceasing to exist. You know, like the stated transpolicy of GayEradication.

You don’t have to actually state you are for it to promote it. You only have to promote the organisation that wants it and turn your face aside from the persecution that is designed to bring it about.

It is a cause that is dear to you. But I cannot understand how you continue to justify, to the world and yourself, the abuses that have taken place under its name.

Rosie51

trisher Presumably you meant your answer at 17:18:19 to Doodledog not me?? We may agree on many aspects but we're not yet interchangeable

Not addressing the whole intersex fiction then, or whether the 100s of genders should qualify for inclusion on passports?

"Do you mind if this person pats you down or would you prefer a man/woman?" Now there's a revolutionary idea! do you go through airports much? Of course I've not flown for almost 3 years but I don't think I've met many airport officials quite so wordy or engaging.
Why would you not outright defend a female employee's right not to have to pat down a male passenger in Galaxy's example?

Well perhaps because I could forsee a situation where there might only be a female employee available. In that case the alternatives would seem to be
that all shifts employed people of both genders (but if there are only women available I don't see why a token man should have a job over a woman)
alternatively
a potential terrorist/drug smuggler could be standing in an airport waiting for a male employee to be contacted. If it is a terrorist would the female employee who refused to search them be responsible when a weapon or bomb went off?
Honestly do you really think I don't look at the absolute complexities of these things?
I may mix up names but actually I do care about these things and don't dismiss everytihng without investigation as it is obvious some people do.

Lathyrus I fully admit I haven't replied. It left me with such astonishment and incredulity that I find it very difficult to say anything.
In 2015-2017 many transwomen died in prison usually at their own hands. some of them were undoubtedly violent people but did they deserve to die? I think not. But of course they are largely forgotten, perhaps because they don't fit the general portrayal of what happens to transwomen.

If you can post me one of my posts where I have dismissed, disregarded, approved of or in any way negated any violence towards any person whatever their gender designation sexual orientation or any other classification you care to name I fully apologise but I really don't think you can.
You on the other hand have cast a slur on every member of a community which has as many attitudes, differences and diversity as any other and which has an established record of victimisation.
So whatever you think of me really doesn't matter to me

Don't put words into my mouth trisha
I don't have a gender, but can acknowledge there are others who are convinced they do. I don't have to agree with their supposition and that's not prejudice at all. People believe all sorts of unprovable things that I don't, and if I was compelled to believe them too that's nothing short of tyranny. I may not like every provable fact but I accept it as fact (unlike some who believe in 3 or more sexes).

I really can’t understand why you have this picture of yourself as fighting for equality for all??‍♀️

No, many of us have been saying for a long time that what is described as 'intersectional feminism' is actually internalised misogyny. I have never seen a post from trisher that puts the needs, rights or safety of women ahead of, or even on an equal footing with those of men or transwomen. Never.

trisher

Apologies Rosie51 it is hard to keep two converataions going and even harder to keep 3 (or is it 4) still the allegation of prejudice and the obvious example of the prejudice displayed on his thread remains whoever said it. But if you like to acknowledge there is prejudice that's fine with me.

Can you point to the prejudice, please?

All I can see is you pre-judging about what people might want to say to their MP/have put on a passport/aspire to.

Apologies Rosie51 it is hard to keep two converataions going and even harder to keep 3 (or is it 4) still the allegation of prejudice and the obvious example of the prejudice displayed on his thread remains whoever said it. But if you like to acknowledge there is prejudice that's fine with me.

Lathyrus

trisher

Lathyrus

It’s a pity the trans communities don’t think as you do but are active in persecuting women, homosexuals and lesbians.

How contradictory that you ally yourself with them.

I don't believe the majority of the trans community are doing this Lathyrus but if you have some statistics to prove it I'm willing to be put right.

There cannot be any statistics of the type you request because incidences of assault and harassment by transwomen are recorded as incidences carried out by women and vice versa for transmen.

The trans communities will therefore always register at zero for crime of any kind.

There is however much evidence of violence, persecution and harassment by the trans communities towards the groups I spoke of. Cases of lesbians being groomed or threatened into sex with transwomen, of homosexuals harassed on the streets, of natal women being assaulted in what should have been safe spaces.

Some have reached court and have been posted about about on these threads. As we know from Rape cases statistically many more will have been hidden public view.

So effective is the silencing that soon even the public cases will cease to exist. Even if a woman has been raped the fact of the penis will be irrelevant. It will be a crime committed by a woman.

Sigh.

Best to just ignore this then trisha.

After all, what’s the persecution of some old gays, a bunch of lesbians and some silly women in the grand scheme of things.

I really can’t understand why you have this picture of yourself as fighting for equality for all??‍♀️

I meant attributing obviously.

trisher you're doing it again, quoting Doodledog and ascribing it to me.

Rosie51 Try think most people 'just are', and don't see NB as a recognised gender. I don't see gender as important,
Possibly because you are happy with the gender you are. To say that it isn't important is showing prejudice towards those who think it is important. Not recognising non-binary as a gender choice is prejudice.
It is manifestly obvious that gender is important to some people and not recognising that fact is prejudice.

trisher Presumably you meant your answer at 17:18:19 to Doodledog not me?? We may agree on many aspects but we're not yet interchangeable

Not addressing the whole intersex fiction then, or whether the 100s of genders should qualify for inclusion on passports?

"Do you mind if this person pats you down or would you prefer a man/woman?" Now there's a revolutionary idea! do you go through airports much? Of course I've not flown for almost 3 years but I don't think I've met many airport officials quite so wordy or engaging.
Why would you not outright defend a female employee's right not to have to pat down a male passenger in Galaxy's example?

Galaxy

So if you are a non binary person of the male sex then a female custom official should have the right to saying no to searching you ( if searching is generally segregated by sex).

Isn't that something to be taken up with the custom's official's boss? It might depend on staff numbers of course.

Sorry it isn't clear Galaxy but the remark about patting down was for Rosie51 sometimes it gets difficult to manintain two conversations at once.

So if you are a non binary person of the male sex then a female custom official should have the right to saying no to searching you ( if searching is generally segregated by sex).

Do you think I would disagree with offering choice of who pats someòne down. Why on earth would you think that when its the basis of my argument. So women need to be given the choice of that happening by only a member of the female sex. That applies to the employees who carry out the search as well. Based on sex not what someone believes.

I think many of the posts on this thread illustrate vividly the sort of attutudes that oppress many people whatever gender they define as. It's generally known as prejudice and it is so evident on this thread.
Perhaps you could give some examples from this thread? If you could do so without being patronising, so much the better.

I don't think I have mentioned a medical setting Galaxy just passports, sex would be something only necessary for a medical professional to know. you obviously missed my post about a male not being allowed to carry out a pat down of a female passenger. They know you're female because there's an F marker on your passport. Not a medical setting but very important none the less.
I wonder how people from the many countries that accept an X on passports cope at airports then? Let's think Oh perhaps someone asks "Do you mind if this person pats you down or would you prefer a man/woman?" Now there's a revolutionary idea!

Gender is the ideas trisher. What else is it? Its the stereotypes associated with being a man or a woman.

It's funny Rosie51 because it's just another example of how unaccepting and discriminatory some people are and how they pretend to understand others whilst simultaneously denigrating and dismissing them and their requests.

Galaxy it's not the gender that's oppressive it's the attitudes taken towards it. Which is one reason some people identify as non-binary. I'm happy being defined as a woman. I'm not happy with the attitudes taken towards me because I define as a woman. I think many of the posts on this thread illustrate vividly the sort of attutudes that oppress many people whatever gender they define as. It's generally known as prejudice and it is so evident on this thread.

Many believe that inter-sex babies should be designated as non-binary at birth and permitted to choose their gender as an adult. there is no intersex, there are two sexes male and female. Lord Winston said it so clearly on QT. As the pioneer for IVF I'd think the most stupid amongst us would bow to his superior knowledge on the subject. Nowadays there just isn't the problem that non typical genitalia presented in the past. Science will be able to ascertain the sex of the baby accurately. What science can't measure is what the child's sexual orientation will be, whether they'll want to conform to any stereotypes associated with that sex, or whether they'll want to transition to a stereotype of the opposite sex.

Not adhering to some arbitrary binary stereotype, doesn't put you in a club of clones who want to be stereotyped. Non binary is not a sex class. Passports record factual sex, they don't record inner feelings. Are you also in favour of furries being able to record their 'gender', what about the other 100s of genders we're repeatedly told exist?

I don't think I have mentioned a medical setting Galaxy just passports, sex would be something only necessary for a medical professional to know. you obviously missed my post about a male not being allowed to carry out a pat down of a female passenger. They know you're female because there's an F marker on your passport. Not a medical setting but very important none the less.

I think gender is oppressive, and impacts negaticely in men and women. Why would I be campaigning about it. And no sex is not just important in a medical setting.

Why is it 'funny', trisher? And who has 'aspired' to be non-binary? What has been said is that non-binary is a natural state, unless one buys into the notion that women should 'present' only at one end of a scale, and men 'present as' the other. I can't think of a single person I know who does this. I'm maybe not the best one to ask, though, as I don't divide attitudes, clothing, activities or whatever into exclusively 'male' and 'female', and I don't think many people do. I think most people 'just are', and don't see NB as a recognised gender. I don't see gender as important, particularly if it is about 'feelings' and 'presentation'. These things are personal, which is what I meant (as I think you know) when I said that I am not interested in imposing pronouns (or anything else) on others.

The idea of getting my MP, who has better things to do just now, involved in a campaign to alter my passport (even if I were unhappy with having my sex recorded on there) could not be further from something I would ever do, and I don't know why you would 'take it' that anyone gender-critical would consider it.

Galaxy

Oh and to answer your question trisher I dont need to know whether someone is non binary it is no business of mine, in certain circumstances we need to know peoples sex, if you pretend non binary peopke do not have a sex in a medical setting for example you risk killing them.

I don't think I have mentioned a medical setting Galaxy just passports, sex would be something only necessary for a medical professional to know. Many believe that inter-sex babies should be designated as non-binary at birth and permitted to choose their gender as an adult.
It is funny how non-binary seems to be something some claim to aspire to but without any commitment to the advancement of non-binary as a recognised gender. Isn't that a bit like claiming to play cricket but not wanting to join a team?
There are many countries where non-binary is recognised on a passport. Some of these reserve the definition for inter-sex people but not all en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_recognition_of_non-binary_gender