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Vagina Museum

(714 Posts)
grannydarkhair Tue 08-Mar-22 20:51:16

Today is International Women’s Day. So who do you think the Vagina Museum (the world’s first bricks and mortar museum dedicated to the gynaecological anatomy) chose to celebrate? Trans women. And instantly closed their Twitter feed to comments. I wonder why?

Mollygo Thu 10-Mar-22 11:43:57

Trisher you sound so bitter. I feel for you.
Your posts are masterpieces in using ideas from others’ posts so I’m surprised you criticise JKR.
She talks about, for example, all the fantastic beasts that she didn’t invent and those that she did. Every author today uses ideas that exist in other books-romances, crimes, psychological thrillers. It’s what an author does with an idea that makes it great.
Is your problem with JKR that she dares to repeat the truth that only females are women?

trisher Thu 10-Mar-22 11:33:58

Iam64

Ok trisha, so not only is JKR anti trans, she’s become successful despite lacking talent and exaggerating some aspects of her experience.
I admire her work, she’s brought huge enjoyment to so many children and adults. She understands abuse and gaslighting. She’s a survivor.

Iam64 firstly it's trisher
The Harry Potter books are masterpieces in using and developing ideas from other people's books I didn't say she hadn't talent.
I'm afraid the things she has has revealed about her private life are always questionable for me. The idea that a single mother on benefits could even afford one cup of coffee in a cafe puzzled me- of course when your brother-in-law owns the cafe things are different!!!

Doodledog Thu 10-Mar-22 11:31:26

* . . . a discussion which serves no useful purpose other than to give space to people who constantly post that they are not anti-trans, then proceed to blame transwomen for every sort of transgression or violation of women you can imagine. It serves no useful purpose as far as I can see other than to give them space to post their prejudices.*
No. This thread is about the way in which the one day of the year devoted to women has ended up being about men, and the fact that this is doubly ironic because the museum concerned is devoted to the vagina - something that is the most female of organs, and one that is not possessed by men (or most transwomen for that matter). That is not a matter of prejudice but one of fact.

As for 'not getting personal' - I beg to differ, as someone who has had her professional competence questioned by you, as well as questioning the truth about my experience of events in my early marriage - both very personal and unnecessary comments. I do not want to derail the thread about this, but can't let that travesty go without comment.

Iam64 Thu 10-Mar-22 11:01:50

Ok trisha, so not only is JKR anti trans, she’s become successful despite lacking talent and exaggerating some aspects of her experience.
I admire her work, she’s brought huge enjoyment to so many children and adults. She understands abuse and gaslighting. She’s a survivor.

Smileless2012 Thu 10-Mar-22 10:52:28

It's sad that in this day and age women still have to fight so hard against being sidelined and silenced.

trisher Thu 10-Mar-22 10:47:50

Callistemon21

*trisher*!!
Not like you to give up.

I hope you haven't left altogether.
I might not always agree with you (!) but you are never personal.

I haven't "given up" Callistemon21 I have simply removed myself from a discussion which serves no useful purpose other than to give space to people who constantly post that they are not anti-trans, then proceed to blame transwomen for every sort of transgression or violation of women you can imagine. It serves no useful purpose as far as I can see other than to give them space to post their prejudices.

As for J.K. Rowling , her books were and continue to be immensely popular and she has encouraged some children to read. However I never liked the fact that she stole openly from other authors and tried to depict herself as a starving single mother (but one with very good connections) . So I view her present reinvention as the saviour of women with some suspicion.
(And I think the rest of her writing is crap and would never see the light of day never mind the silver screen but for the fact she has her own production company)

Thanks for recognising I would never make things personal. I'm sure the women who post such awful things when transpeople are mentioned are very nice really. I just don't want to engage with them.

Galaxy Thu 10-Mar-22 10:38:18

Yes I saw that one, scary scary man. Her tweet to Anneliese Dodds made me laugh.

Chewbacca Thu 10-Mar-22 10:36:30

The Twatter feed between JKRowling and someone called "Vaush" is excruciating to read:

All JKRowling had to do was shut the fuck up and she could have been almost uncritically loved for like a century.

Women be quieter and start apologizing challenge

Her response:
What you and your ilk fail to appreciate is how tediously familiar I am with your tactics. I had a violent ex husband who used to tell me that life would be great if only I'd comply. But your making the same mistake that he did. Women like me can't be bullied out of resistance.

Long may she remain strong.

FannyCornforth Thu 10-Mar-22 09:30:45

Yes, Galaxy, she is our brave crusader.
Such a terrible shame that Magdalen Burns is no longer with us?

Galaxy Thu 10-Mar-22 09:17:10

Oh my goodness JKR Twitter is just a joy to behold at the moment. She is like a bloody lion. I wonder if she knows how much she is appreciated.

Rosie51 Thu 10-Mar-22 00:12:45

Mollygo No the biology hasn’t changed, but the growth of fantasy worlds like the Flat Earth Society has increased and allowed people to spout untruths under the protection of free speech. A bit like Putin’s ‘It’s not a war’ speech. spot on! Except 'free speech' is only allowed to qualifying groups, most of whom have no connection with, or correlation to, scientific truth. Fantasy rules innit!

Mollygo Wed 09-Mar-22 23:52:20

*Callistemon21
But that was GCE Biology, valid since the world began but which may have changed recently.*
No the biology hasn’t changed, but the growth of fantasy worlds like the Flat Earth Society has increased and allowed people to spout untruths under the protection of free speech. A bit like Putin’s ‘It’s not a war’ speech.

nanna8 Wed 09-Mar-22 23:51:43

Well I wouldn't go to a vagina museum or a dick museum come to that. Better things to do.

Callistemon21 Wed 09-Mar-22 23:29:22

Oh! The Thought Police may be tracking me down.
I do have a bag packed ready (my hospital bag)

But it just seemed logical to me that female with vagina -> cervix -> womb -> ovaries with eggs meeting sperm produced by male resulted in baby (if you're lucky).
But that was GCE Biology, valid since the world began but which may have changed recently.

Rosie51 Wed 09-Mar-22 23:20:01

It's Ok Callistemon I'll bake a cake with a hidden file so you can escape from your jail cell ?

Chewbacca Wed 09-Mar-22 23:15:51

Careful Callistemon it's talk like that that got Maya Forstater sacked and facing a court of law that likened to her as a Nazi. See my post above ☝️

Rosie51 Wed 09-Mar-22 23:15:09

Callistemon21

Rosie51

As for transpeople, when you think about it logically, the Vagina Museum should celebrate transmen as unless surgically altered they retain a vagina. Freddie McConnell could be the poster transman having birthed two children through a fully functioning vagina that connected to a functioning cervix and uterus.

In other words, she's a Mum!

Freddie is a name attributable to men and women.

Oh I fully agree! I was pleased that Freddie's attempt not to be registered as mother on the birth certificate failed. That certificate is the child's property not a vanity validation for the parent. I just think if the vagina museum had any logic they might just have cottoned on to transmen did and probably still do have a vagina, while transwomen have never, ever had the real thing.

Callistemon21 Wed 09-Mar-22 23:06:16

Rosie51

As for transpeople, when you think about it logically, the Vagina Museum should celebrate transmen as unless surgically altered they retain a vagina. Freddie McConnell could be the poster transman having birthed two children through a fully functioning vagina that connected to a functioning cervix and uterus.

In other words, she's a Mum!

Freddie is a name attributable to men and women.

Rosie51 Wed 09-Mar-22 23:02:52

Pressed post too soon. Of course having used female anatomy to gestate two babies sort of belies the "living as a man" declaration Freddie made to receive a GRC, but hey what's a lie or two between friends? GRC issued, stop the testosterone to enable a pregnancy, something only the female of every mammalian species can do.

Rosie51 Wed 09-Mar-22 22:57:54

As for transpeople, when you think about it logically, the Vagina Museum should celebrate transmen as unless surgically altered they retain a vagina. Freddie McConnell could be the poster transman having birthed two children through a fully functioning vagina that connected to a functioning cervix and uterus.

Chewbacca Wed 09-Mar-22 22:52:32

No one can keep defending the indefensible forever Callistemon! grin

Callistemon21 Wed 09-Mar-22 22:48:27

As I said before only dictators and repressive regimes restrict free speech

No-one is restricting your free speech, trisher
This is not Russia, it's Gransnet, and to compare the two at the present time really is not acceptable.

It's not like you to give up.

Chewbacca Wed 09-Mar-22 22:25:38

Oh wow. A gang?

gringrin

Callistemon21 Wed 09-Mar-22 22:24:46

trisher!!
Not like you to give up.

I hope you haven't left altogether.
I might not always agree with you (!) but you are never personal.

Chewbacca Wed 09-Mar-22 22:22:46

The Maya Forstater court case begins on Monday. So far £164,409 has been crowdfunded to pay her legal fees. I can't describe how much I admire Maya; she's been fired from a job that she loved and excelled in simply for stating:
I believe that while it is right that people should be free to express their identity and trans people should never be badly treated simply for being trans, the material reality of a person’s sex cannot literally change, and in situations where sex matters, it is sex that matters.

I tweeted and wrote about this in the context of the government proposals to allow people to change their legal sex through a simple self-declaration, and what this would mean for women’s rights.

I was not accused of harassing any colleagues and I stated that I will use preferred pronouns out of courtesy. Nevertheless the judge ruled that my belief, in itself, failed the test of being
^ “worthy of respect in a democratic society, compatible with human dignity and not in conflict^ with the fundamental rights of others” (This is part of the “Grainger Criteria” for being a protected belief).

The belief I hold; that women are adult human females, and that a person with a penis is not, in fact, a woman is shared by most people around the world. In the UK, while 1 in 5 people are willing to say that they believe that a person with full male anatomy can be a woman, 3 out of 5 do not (the rest say they don’t know or prefer not to say).

The ability to speak clearly about the material reality of sex is important for children, parents, people in relationships, teachers, health and social care professionals, scientists and other academics, policy makers, the media, the police, the judiciary, athletes and sporting bodies.

It is important for everyone in their everyday lives that we can talk about the two sexes. We can treat everyone with mutual politeness and respect, but this does not demand that we deny reality.

Being able to talk clearly about the two sexes underpins the ability to fight sex discrimination, to undertake scientific research and collect statistics, to safeguard children and vulnerable people, to give children clear sex education and protect them from harm, for women to have control and autonomy over who gets to see and touch our bodies, to have women’s sports, and to protect the rights of lesbians and gay men. It is also relevant to other areas of discrimination including on the basis of religion, race and disability. And it is important for transsexuals and those suffering from gender dysphoria, in particular children and young people.

The Judge argued there is nothing to stop people like me campaigning against proposals to change the law to allow people to change their legal sex through "self ID", and to keep single sex services, but that we should use terms such as “women assigned male at birth” and “women assigned female at birth” instead of male and female.

In practice this makes it impossible to say why single sex services and women’s sports matter - because sex matters. The suppression of ordinary language makes this impossible to talk about clearly.

I am just the tip of an iceberg. Many people have been silenced or disciplined at work and in political parties and associations for speaking up on safeguarding, and for the need for a reality based debate about law and policy on sex and gender identity.

The judgment in this case has already been used against me in other situations; to turn me down for work and to judge that my "suitability for Scouting" should be put into question.

S^ince my case became news I have heard from so many people who have been disciplined at^ work, forced to recant and apologise, or made unemployable for saying the simple truth that human beings are male or female and that they cannot change sex. There are many, many others who are afraid to speak up.

I worked at a think tank; a research institution that I thought stood for independence, intellectual rigour, evidence- based policy and willingness to challenge powerful institutions. These are my values. But I found out that I was not allowed to apply them to this topic.

CGD's representative stood up in court and compared my views to naziism.

R^obert Wintemute an international human rights lawyer and pioneer of gay rights has written^ about my case . He said whether one agrees or disagrees with my belief in two immutable b^iological sexes, it can hardly be put at the same level as Holocaust denial or incitement to^ violence. He argues (as my legal team will too) that the tribunal erred in law

The case is to be heard next week and I'll be rooting for her every inch of the way.