Vagina Museum

I have no issue with transectional feminists posting about their belief that trans women are women trisher as I have posted so fail to see why you state otherwise.

As far as I'm aware the Vagina Museum is not about men who have trans gendered and chosen to have had their genitalia removed and replaced with a surgically made vagina, it's about women's vagina's and women's issues.

So, IMO for those running the museum to choose to celebrate trans women on International Women's day is wrong. It is taking a day, one day of the year to celebrate women and subverting it.

If as posted earlier on this thread, the museum silenced responses to this then who do you suppose are the dictators? They are the women trying to silence women, women who don't believe that trans women are women, because they're not.

Chewbacca no, you simply did not hear my comment as it was intended

I have clarified and you have chosen to discredit me by saying I am gaslighting instead of me showing you that the inflection that is missing in type (without my realising as I typed it) would be there on my speaking voice.

I have a lifetime of experience of gaslighting as you know from my abusive childhood and I would never do that to another person. I would have to be a really disgusting awful human being to behave in that way.

I think you need to look at context more

By majority comments I meant that the majority of comments may say one thing on these threads where the OP is clearly not accepting of trans people... Transitioning fully... but that on other threads people show great kindness and support towards tran people... They just aren't saying it here and I don't blame them

I'm not going to complain that my questions don't get answered because it doesn't actually worry me, people have a right to choose whether to answer and no one owes me anything

I thought that is was the museum that had silenced replies. Exactly so Ilovecheese. Odd that innit?

And this is about women trying to silence other women

No trisher, it's trans women trying to silence natal women.

The "straw man" issues that you refer to are purely and simply the absolute facts of what women have been told to change, in order that trans women be accommodated. Not one of the examples that I've quoted can be denied or refuted. And if you think that anyone of them can be; please show me.

VioletSky

trisher that is exactly the issue

This is why we can't have nice things (discussions)

It's women trying to silence other women by telling them they are too wrong, too stupid, too not feminist, too passive aggressive, too forthright, too loud, too slow to answer questions too any excuse to possibly be allowed an opinion

And its right there over and over in black and white but it is only acceptable to say so if you are the right sort of woman.

What happened to us?

Projection

trisher that is exactly the issue

This is why we can't have nice things (discussions)

It's women trying to silence other women by telling them they are too wrong, too stupid, too not feminist, too passive aggressive, too forthright, too loud, too slow to answer questions too any excuse to possibly be allowed an opinion

And its right there over and over in black and white but it is only acceptable to say so if you are the right sort of woman.

What happened to us?

I thought that is was the museum that had silenced replies.

You keep moving your goalposts though VioletSky so it's difficult to hold a discussion with you. Firstly you say that threads on this subject invariably have you needing to hide them. When I concur that that's possibly for the best, you gaslight me by saying that I'm "putting the onus on you to avoid the threads". Then, when I clarify that I was actually agreeing with your original statement and that no one is compelled to comment, you gaslight me again by saying that I'm simply confirming that the onus is on you to avoid them! You wrong foot us again by saying t
Then you say that you "don't see comments in real time (??)" and need time to answer questions asked of you but then don't clarify, even some time later, what you mean by "majority comments" and "majority views". I genuinely have no idea what you mean by this and wonder why one is more dismissable than the other?
You do appear to take any posts that don't concur with your way of thinking very personally and so it's difficult to hold a discussion, where feelings and opinions are strong and deep, when one is walking on eggshells and trying to keep abreast of the moving goalposts.

Chewbacca

^Or are they supposed just to keep quiet?^

No trisher, you're muddling up the "keep quiet" narrative with what natal women are being told when they raise any concerns about people with penis's being in their safe spaces, prisons, rape crisis centres, Girl Guides, Brownies, changing rooms, toilets, domestic violence safe houses and lesbian groups. And if they dare to raise their concerns about this they're shouted down for being "transphobic," transactivists, terfs and "true feminist deniers". So if trans women are experiencing being told to KEEP quiet, well then they'd better get used to it. We've lived like this for millennia and we're still being told to KEEP QUIET, MOVE OVER, SHUT UP AND BE KIND.

Do you mean these issues trisha?

Smileless2012

I agree trisher that publicising women's issues is a positive thing. Publicising trans women's issues is also a good thing but should not be done under the umbrella of women's issues because they are not women.

Smileless2012 I don't believe in the resurrection of Christ, but if there is a website which belongs to Christians who do believe in the resurrection they have a perfact right to post about it.
Just as intersectional feminists who believe transwomen are women have the right to post about it.
You may disagree with them. You may question their beliefs. But only dictators insist on imposing their views on other people.

Chewbacca why do you have to bring all of those issues into this discussion? Perhaps because you realise trying to silence the women at the Vagina museum is indefensible. It's a straw man argument. And this is about women trying to silence other women, which apparently is acceptable because you don't agree with their views. That's very dangerous ground.

I'm not stupid either

So there we are

I could just ignore people who are disrespectful but there are so so many complaints if I don't answer

I am just in an impossible position here really

I'm not a victim
I'm relieved to hear that Violetsky because that is not how it appears from your posts on several threads.

Please don't keep thinking that, if posters disagree with you, that you are a victim.
You and they just have a different point of view.

And be obedient and subversive even in 2022!
I hope they are quick learners because, fact, it takes years of indoctrination.

Or are they supposed just to keep quiet?

No trisher, you're muddling up the "keep quiet" narrative with what natal women are being told when they raise any concerns about people with penis's being in their safe spaces, prisons, rape crisis centres, Girl Guides, Brownies, changing rooms, toilets, domestic violence safe houses and lesbian groups. And if they dare to raise their concerns about this they're shouted down for being "transphobic," transactivists, terfs and "true feminist deniers". So if trans women are experiencing being told to KEEP quiet, well then they'd better get used to it. We've lived like this for millennia and we're still being told to KEEP QUIET, MOVE OVER, SHUT UP AND BE KIND.

I agree trisher that publicising women's issues is a positive thing. Publicising trans women's issues is also a good thing but should not be done under the umbrella of women's issues because they are not women.

FannyCornforth

I can’t help but think that The Vagina Museum has done this for publicity alone

Well good for them. Publicising women's issues is surely a positive thing. Or are they supposed just to keep quiet?
Milck at the 2018 Women's March on Washington in pink pussy hats! www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLvIw8J8sWE

FannyCornforth

And I’m going to add this:
You cannot be born in the wrong body

?????????

grannydarkhair

Why is talking about basic human biology mean?

??????????

And I’m going to add this:
You cannot be born in the wrong body

I can’t help but think that The Vagina Museum has done this for publicity alone

Oh and Trans women are not over women for me so that's also untrue. Is it OK to point that out.
Of course you can point out that transwomen are not over women for you.
I can point out that trans women should not be over any women in any circumstances unfortunately some trans women don’t agree with that.
You can actually say almost anything on here same as I can (with perfect truth) say they are not women, because despite all the attempts to twist around the vocabulary, woman is still an adult human female. So TW are not women.
Here’s a thought. If TW want to be called TW what’s the problem? They can run in TW races, apply for jobs that include TW in the list of people who can apply, they can go into facilities like changing rooms or refuges that have been allocated for TW.
My experience of TW, which is possibly more limited than yours, but no less valuable, is that neither those TW who wish to keep their transition private nor those who are TW because it entitles them to things specifically for women would be happy with that.

Well as we have won nearly every legal challenge so far I think we are doing ok. And guess where those legal challenges on the whole came from. Women talking on MN. So honestly you dont need to worry too much about how it's going. Strangely enough lots of women and gender critical transpeople arent just talking on the internet.

VioletSky

List of rights trans people don't have?

Mmy point is they have fought and won

We have discussed so many policies that have been updated previously? What about the equality act? What about all the ways it is now unlawful to discriminate against trans people?

What about those who have now been able to legally change gender? They didn't fight for that?

Because I'm afraid the other side is making progress fighting for their rights this is what you said is making therefore not in the past, but still a present fight, so I ask again, what rights do they still not have that others do? Or are you going with your later statement Mmy point is they have fought and won in which case the fight is over.

Comments do not appear in real time for me and I do not sit on gransnet.

It takes me a long time to write a comment when I want to ensure I'm engaging politely

I answer one thing, more questions come, some get lost or forgotten or simply not seen trying to keep up.

Sometimes 11 quotes and 1 comment saying I'm not a feminist and 1 calling me stupid

I am grateful to know that my thoughts are wanted at least

I really have to go and finish many things I've started right now

List of rights trans people don't have?

Mmy point is they have fought and won

We have discussed so many policies that have been updated previously? What about the equality act? What about all the ways it is now unlawful to discriminate against trans people?

What about those who have now been able to legally change gender? They didn't fight for that?