Vagina Museum

VioletSky

Politely, no.

I can draw parallels between many marginalised groups and doing so promotes empathy and understanding, especially when the goal is equality for all

Especially when I fit in the LGBTQ+ spectrum myself as previously stated and have a voice here that is as valid as anyone else's

Well, there’s a facet.

I really thought if I explained why it’s not acceptable to the gay communities to for their issues to be conflated with those of the trans communities you would accept their right to determine who they are.

I thought it was simply that you were unaware of how things had moved on.

I didn’t expect that when I asked you to please respect their viewpoint yous remind with a plain “No”.

No point then in continuing to try to explain.At least we know where we stand.

“Please respect”
“No”

VioletSky

Politely, no.

I can draw parallels between many marginalised groups and doing so promotes empathy and understanding, especially when the goal is equality for all

Especially when I fit in the LGBTQ+ spectrum myself as previously stated and have a voice here that is as valid as anyone else's

Stating you’re being polite, does not make it so.

Trans people have been using toilets and changing rooms for a long time too without anyone knowing any differently
People keep saying this on these threads, but don’t explain how they know differently. Clearly either those posters are different from the rest of us mortals, or the transpeople were less unobtrusive than you say.

In any event, as everyone else keeps saying - we don’t care if that happens. We’ve gone over and over the things that cause us concern, as well as the fact that ‘ordinary’ transpeople are not the issue.

I always had a lot of gay friends, especially during the time people were really coming out in droves and I was working and socialising with an energy I desperately miss, so lots of stories

Trans people have been using toilets and changing rooms for a long time too without anyone knowing any differently

I remember people being uncomfortable about gay people in toilets and changing rooms
Really? I don't.

Surely gay people were already there, whether you knew they were gay or not?
Unlike this situation, where male people are intruding into female-only places.

trisher

Funny isn't it though there are people on these threads who insist that trans people have mental health issues and need proper counselling not transition. When they commit a crime that's all forgotten, they're just bad people.

Trans-identified male prisoners should be housed somewhere separate from women.
If they also need mental health help, I hope they get it.

There is a much higher proportion of transwomen in the male prison population than in the general male population.
That could be because transwomen are more likely, than other men, to commit crimes.
Or it could be because some male criminals identify as women to get into women's prison.
In either case, yes they are bad people.

Mollygo Well that's just not true or fair really.

VS but if it doesn’t fit your thoughts, you won’t accept it anyway.

Politely, no.

I can draw parallels between many marginalised groups and doing so promotes empathy and understanding, especially when the goal is equality for all

Especially when I fit in the LGBTQ+ spectrum myself as previously stated and have a voice here that is as valid as anyone else's

LGB..,

Ful, of typos. I’m getting upset by your refusal to give respect.☹️

do not perceive

I’ll just reiterate.

Please respect the wishes of the present gay communities who do perceive themselves or wish others to perceive them as sharing the same experiences as other sexual groups.

Who, notwithstanding mutual support that has been given within on-heterosexual groups in the past, now do not wish to be grouped with them or to have their separate issues conflated.

Who believe that the KGBQIT+ designation is no longer valid or helpful and do not wish to be called by a grouping that they find offensive.

The past is the past, things progress and change. Please respect that and their right to determine their own identity.

People know far less than I assumed

What are you assuming that we don't know? You can't be serious about thinking we haven't heard of Pride or Stonewall riots, surely?

Lathyrus

I think things have moved on considerably in the the past few years.

I’m bringing to your attention the present views and feelings of the gay communities and the way in which they wish to be perceived.
That their sexuality and experiences are individual to them and cannot be compared or conflated with other sexual groupings.

It is not for you to dictate how people are allowed to view themselves or to decide how other human beings should be grouped and labelled against their will.

There is no acceptable way for you to dismiss their wishes as nonsense.

What has anything you just said got to do with what I said?

Which was that they have faced many types of discrimination in common.

That was true and still is true and what you are saying to me makes no sense as a reply to that.

Perhaps you are actually the one who knows less than thought and are not aware in the shift within the gay communities?

I think things have moved on considerably in the the past few years.

I’m bringing to your attention the present views and feelings of the gay communities and the way in which they wish to be perceived.
That their sexuality and experiences are individual to them and cannot be compared or conflated with other sexual groupings.

It is not for you to dictate how people are allowed to view themselves or to decide how other human beings should be grouped and labelled against their will.

There is no acceptable way for you to dismiss their wishes as nonsense.

I don't even know what to do with that...

People know far less than I assumed

Of course the thing we're discouraged from pointing out is that the gay rights movement sought acceptance and fairness for gay people, but without taking anything away from non-gay people. Fairness of opportunity, the right to marry etc, just equal unbiased treatment which is a basic human right. They did not attempt to change language by using outlandish three word phrases where one had sufficed. They didn't attempt to occupy spaces reserved for the opposite sex. They wanted the same rights as everyone else but nothing they wanted impinged on anyone not gay. A gay couple marrying does not affect me at all, an intact male bodied person stripping off in the communal changing room would. Gay men didn't want to cheat by competing against female opposition. If I were a swimmer who'd trained hard for years Lia Thomas, the American college swimmer, would affect me since the women's records are falling like flies. Before Lia learned how to cheat less obviously they beat the second place swimmer by almost 40 seconds! No right that was lobbied for by the gay rights organisation altered or affected non gays in any way at all.

Would it be acceptable to say "that makes no sense" which is the same meaning but takes longer to type

What word would be less offensive than "nonsense" and I will happily use that as long as it expresses the same thing

You all have heard of Pride Month right? The parades, picnics and events held? The millions and millions of supporters?

Do you know about the stonewall uprising? Raids were happening on gay bars, people arrested, trans people right there and often arrested. Its been LGBTQ+ together from the very beginning of this fight. And they have acheived a lot together

Here is a good link

www.loc.gov/item/today-in-history/june-28/

I'm quite surprised that was even an argument honestly given the history

Lathyrus

Please respect that the gay community does not wish to be compared with the trans communities. Nor have parallels drawn with their respective experiences.

Homosexuality/Lesbianism is an entirely different sexuality and it cannot be conflated in any way with the trans movement.

Especially by those who are heterosexual and are appropriating.

Well said indeed Lathyrus and well said Doodledog about the use of 50 year old attitudes on gays when talking about trans.
In 50 years time there may well be recall of trans behaviour towards gays, the demand for ‘cancelling’ people who speak the truth about gametes, the attacks by some trans on vulnerable women and the men who have to claim to be women to succeed in sport.
Hopefully by then, the trans community along with everyone else will be standing up and fighting against those trans who give them a bad name and make life for them more difficult.

LGBTQIA is no longer accepted as a valid grouping. It was a designation that basically covered ‘not heterosexual” and for a while was accepted by communities within it as a means of identifying those who were subject to prejudice because of their non heterosexual sexual identities.

The mutual support that people within that grouping gave to ach other has now broken down and the gay communities ask that you respect that their experiences are individual to their communities and cannot be compared with the other communities within that arbitrary grouping.

Phase do not call it nonsense. That is offensive,

No that's nonsense, they very much know the issues they face in common, the LGBTQIA

Well said, Lathyrus. There appears to be very limited understanding of the issues between TRAs and the gay community by many on these threads.