Vagina Museum

Yes, I remember those things too, but I don't think that on the whole people feel the same about transpeople nowadays. in fact, a lot of people are blind to the issues of TRAs, which, as you know, I see as different from 'ordinary' transpeople (for want of a better word), and are broadly supportive. It is when they realise the damage that organisations like Stonewall have caused that the problems start, which, as I and others keep saying, does more harm than good to the majority of transpeople.

It is very irritating to have one's support of 'ordinary' transpeople presented as a copy of 50 year old attitudes to gay people by people on threads like this. I am not remotely homophobic - far from it - and despite feeling strongly about women's rights being eroded by TRAs, I am not transphobic either.

Please respect that the gay community does not wish to be compared with the trans communities. Nor have parallels drawn with their respective experiences.

Homosexuality/Lesbianism is an entirely different sexuality and it cannot be conflated in any way with the trans movement.

Especially by those who are heterosexual and are appropriating.

doodledog I find it really hard not to see the parallels

I remember people being uncomfortable about gay people in toilets and changing rooms

I remember people saying it was a mental illness that needed curing

I remember people pointing at them because they weren't conforming to gender stereotypes

I remember families disowning them

I remember when "gay" and "lesbian" were used as insults the way the word trans has been thrown at people who don't look the way people expect, often wrongly

I'm saying "I remember" but some still sadly hold these views, it's less now but it's not gone yet

VioletSky

trisher

They have VioletSky transwomen were just sent to male jails but between 2014 and 2018 there were a significant number of suicides. I think judges reacted to that, but a transgender wing has been opened

That is good news.

I think sex offenders probably alway née to be kept out of general population, same as murderers. Prison should never be a place crime happens

Agreed. Whether the crime is by the sex offenders or against them, prison should be the punishment, not violence committed there.

I don't see the link with gay people or family support though - in fact I am sick of seeing trans and gay issues conflated. When anyone commits rape they are 'a bad person', as far as I'm concerned.

It is very uncomfortable.

For a long time that was said about gay people too.

It's like we don't learn from history.

The saddest part is people being disowned by their own families..

Although I do think in some cases that might be for the best because if a parent doesn't love you for who you are on one level they probably won't on others

Funny isn't it though there are people on these threads who insist that trans people have mental health issues and need proper counselling not transition. When they commit a crime that's all forgotten, they're just bad people.

trisher

They have VioletSky transwomen were just sent to male jails but between 2014 and 2018 there were a significant number of suicides. I think judges reacted to that, but a transgender wing has been opened

That is good news.

I think sex offenders probably alway née to be kept out of general population, same as murderers. Prison should never be a place crime happens

Never mind the trauma for the female prisoners, if the sex-offending men get what they want, eh?

They have VioletSky transwomen were just sent to male jails but between 2014 and 2018 there were a significant number of suicides. I think judges reacted to that, but a transgender wing has been opened

Iam64

It’s looking as though the prison service : criminal justice system is realising that putting men who self ID and guilty of sexual offences against women and children, into womens prisons is a bad idea.

That is good news

Don't a lot of prisons have different wings for dangerous prisoners?

I'm not sure because my knowledge of prisons is mostly American TV

It’s looking as though the prison service : criminal justice system is realising that putting men who self ID and guilty of sexual offences against women and children, into womens prisons is a bad idea.

When it came up we were talking about male sex offenders and rapists being housed in female jails, and I said, in response to your question about male prisoners threatening suicide, that I would house them in a male prison, regardless of their attempts at blackmail. Which I would.

Doodledog

No trusher.

I do understand. I would put male rapists in a male prison, yes. I would put them pretty much anywhere before locking them in a cell with a female prisoner. Not because I ‘don’t care about transpeople’ (which is an untrue and personal comment, incidentally - a matter which which might concern Gagajo if she is policing this thread, too) but because I don’t care much about rapists.

But that wasn't the question I didn't ask would you put them in a female prison. You could have put them in a trans wing , but you said a male prison. Who said the transwomen was a rapist? Or do you just assume they are all rapists?

I don't think I have ever said transwomen should be in a male prison. I have said putiing them in a female one was wrong. That isn't the same thing.

Passive aggressive mode

It goes hand in hand with the usual gaslighting Iam64

Passive aggressive mode

Mollygo you haven't added any research to back up your point either so I guess, we've just cancelled each other out

VioletSky

Iam64 Well no that's not true.

You see, I have posted links in the past but they havent been acknowledged, or they have been acknowledged but not read, or they have been read but it was research from 2 years ago so irrelevant.

As a person who has formulated my opinions by doing my own research on the subject, either after reading others comments or to satisfy my own curiosity...

I don't think it is much to ask others to educate themselves before replying rather than have me do the work twice

When I do research, the answers I find do not support your research. So is the outcome of your research faulty, or would you claim the outcome of my research is faulty?

Sorry - trisher ?

No trusher.

I do understand. I would put male rapists in a male prison, yes. I would put them pretty much anywhere before locking them in a cell with a female prisoner. Not because I ‘don’t care about transpeople’ (which is an untrue and personal comment, incidentally - a matter which which might concern Gagajo if she is policing this thread, too) but because I don’t care much about rapists.

Iam64 Well no that's not true.

You see, I have posted links in the past but they havent been acknowledged, or they have been acknowledged but not read, or they have been read but it was research from 2 years ago so irrelevant.

As a person who has formulated my opinions by doing my own research on the subject, either after reading others comments or to satisfy my own curiosity...

I don't think it is much to ask others to educate themselves before replying rather than have me do the work twice

Mollygo

Doodledog

There is a lot of twisting and turning going on on this thread, FarNorth.

See my post above, for instance. Schrodinger's trans-identifying prisoners, who when I say should be in male prisons, is indicative of the fact that I don't care about transwomen, but when it's trisher saying it, it means something else (as yet unspecified).

And there will continue to be as you question the validity of some posters statements. You can post facts, and they will post ‘some people I know’, or a ‘change of subject focus’ or ‘what you’re suggesting doesn’t work, I’ve looked into it and discovered this’ with nothing to back it up.

A question of my own.
What’s the basis of
* The best treatment for gender dysphoria is transition. Which means the gender dysphoria is the cause of mental illness not a symptom of mental illness.*
At what age is this transition supposed to be applied?
What does this transition consist of?
What expertise have you in deciding whether GD is a symptom of mental illness or the cause of mental illness? How do the two appear differently?
In the light of the surge in detransitiones would you say that detransition is a cause of mental illness, a symptom of mental illness or a realisation by the subject that it was the wrong thing to do?

Mollygo, thanks for setting out these questions. I was going to set out the same list, in response to VioletSky’s post stating confidently her belief that the best treatment for gender dysphoria is transition.
If we make statements like that, it helps to refer to research that confirms it.

Doodledog

There is a lot of twisting and turning going on on this thread, FarNorth.

See my post above, for instance. Schrodinger's trans-identifying prisoners, who when I say should be in male prisons, is indicative of the fact that I don't care about transwomen, but when it's trisher saying it, it means something else (as yet unspecified).

Doodledog I have said it before but as you either haven't read or didn't understand the difference
A)You'd put a suicidal transwoman in a male prison
B)Judges put transwomen in female prisons because they were concerned about the suicide rates.
A is wrong, B proved wrong. But there is absolutely no correlation between the two.
In fact all it proves is that judges who are notoriously reactive and out of touch have more empathy and concern than you have.

I think you would be better off asking the medical community those questions Mollygo or looking up that information on the Internet

Sorry, those questions were for Violet Sky.

Doodledog

There is a lot of twisting and turning going on on this thread, FarNorth.

See my post above, for instance. Schrodinger's trans-identifying prisoners, who when I say should be in male prisons, is indicative of the fact that I don't care about transwomen, but when it's trisher saying it, it means something else (as yet unspecified).

And there will continue to be as you question the validity of some posters statements. You can post facts, and they will post ‘some people I know’, or a ‘change of subject focus’ or ‘what you’re suggesting doesn’t work, I’ve looked into it and discovered this’ with nothing to back it up.

A question of my own.
What’s the basis of
* The best treatment for gender dysphoria is transition. Which means the gender dysphoria is the cause of mental illness not a symptom of mental illness.*
At what age is this transition supposed to be applied?
What does this transition consist of?
What expertise have you in deciding whether GD is a symptom of mental illness or the cause of mental illness? How do the two appear differently?
In the light of the surge in detransitiones would you say that detransition is a cause of mental illness, a symptom of mental illness or a realisation by the subject that it was the wrong thing to do?