Thinking about people and NHS in general

mokryna

Just an idea, expensive at first, set up a system where instead of sending an expensive ambulance, send a medical person on a motor bike to these people, to assess the gravity of the situation. Less expensive and time consuming than an ambulance in the long run.

Unfortunately a paramedic working alone like that has to be one of the more experienced staff members, therefore leaving very sick patients without the benefit of their experience and expertise.
Also many of the frequent callers have danger flags so lone workers cannot attend for fear of attack or false accusations. Even female patients can cause damage by throwing objects at staff or thumping them with walking sticks and courts are loathe to prosecute them. Many of the male frequent callers cannot have dual female crews let alone a single female responder due to previous sexual assaults.

Burn-out just as a result of these callers is a huge problem. Both clinicians and call handlers can only cope with being called a f**** c* and being told that they hope they get cancer and die so many times before they've had enough and leave.
I'm a tough old bird with years of experience behind me but I have never seen it as bad as it is now.

There are already first response paramedics in the system mokryna, and they do relieve some of the burden on the ambulance crews.
Misuse of the ambulance service has been growing for years unfortunately, as has misuse of GP services and of A&E departments. It’s because these services are the default, when nothing or nobody else is available to deal with the fallout from peoples personal problems. At the root is underfunding of social and welfare support.

Anything that is free will be abused. That’s a fact.

Mental health provision is dismal, our Family Member has severe problems, his career has been told that if all else fails with her coping with him to ring 999, I’m not sure where they would take him, as it isn’t an A and E problem.
Their GP is, I won’t say useless, maybe untrained? unwilling to help? Or maybe there just isn’t anything available now that will help him.
bluebell is right, the system is broken and it’s only when you need them that you realise it. We are all ok if there is a quick pill that can fix it, anything else and it’s a problem.

IMO those that can afford to buy a Health Insurance Policy should have to, I know it will have to be means tested, but something has to happen soon. There are too many people going to hospitals for minor problems, so there will never be enough money or staff.

Should have added that the Emergency Services do an amazing job for very little reward, that should also be fixed.

I don’t agree that the NHS is broken though Oopsadaisy, the ills of society are not illnesses, which is what the NHS is for.

I don’t agree that those who can afford to buy health insurance should do so. anyone with existing conditions won’t get one. We are a wealthy country, we should invest in public services along with the various health services.
We also need to look at a culture that has so many alcohol/substance dependent people. Investment in early years is shown to have positive impact on so many things. Fewer teenage pregnancies, drugs/crime/parenting skills - we have had 12 years now if government that ignores existing research rather than build on it

Sorry I meant that the Mental Health system was broken.

And I do think that Mental Health is an illness not necessarily part of the ills of Society.

For serious mental health issues I agree Oopsadaisy, but there are millions of people with low level mental health/self esteem issues caused by lack of social and financial support. The NHS will never succeed in dealing with those issues because the root cause is not the person’s mental health, it’s the effect of their circumstances.

‘Mental health problems ‘ has become a phrase used too often. People with schizophrenia, psychotic episodes, or significant depression /anxiety have treatable mental health problems.

People who are sad/stressed because of life events can helped, with medication or support.

The Uk has serious problems with drug/substance/alcohol problems which may cause or result from depression/anxiety/traumatic life events. Many people in this group are difficult to help.

These are societal as well as mh issues

Casdon, x posted there, I agree with you

Many are judgemental and intolerant when it comes to mental
illnesses

My friend’s husband was feeling very unwell last week and when they called the doctor they were given an appointment almost a week ahead. He became increasingly unwell and my friend said they must either call 111 or 999. He was very reluctant to do either option and said he would wait to see the doctor. In the end he agreed that they should call 999 and the paramedics arrived, checked him over and wanted to speak to his GP. Apparently they had a special line to his GP surgery but unbelievably they were unable to speak to anybody so they took him to hospital. The last thing I heard is he is very unwell, has had a blood transfusion and is to have another one. He is 82 and my friend is 80, both have several health problems; their experience is so different from ours - my DH has had a few health problems over the past two years and we have always been able to speak to a GP the day we called them and if necessary he has seen a doctor the same day. When he was ill last May because of a gall bladder problem the GP saw him twice in two days and on the second occasion she was so concerned about him she organised his admission to hospital during the appointment. My friend is in North Bedfordshire and we are in Shropshire, what a difference in our experiences of the NHS, we feel very lucky.

You can’t get to speak to a dr for love or money. I came out in these lumps all over my arm suddenly so I rang dr sorry no appointments ring in the morning. Within few hours body was covered in these large lumps. I rerang drs and said I was really concerned got told to monitor them and ring in the morning. Within few hours I was blacking out I rang 111 she sent an ambulance right away and as they came to my house I fell into his arms so I’m told I don’t remember. I don’t even remember ringing them. They blue light me to hospital and I spent few days in hospital turned out I was allergic to some antibiotics I’d being given from dentist. My Gp rang me said receptionist should have put me right through. Hospital had contact them.

When my dad collapsed with a heart attack at home, this was 50 years ago, we called the GP, not an ambulance! How times have changed.

Calendargirl When we phone our GP surgery there is a long message with all the instructions of what to do (Welsh and/or English) to avoid having to make an appointment with the GP.
If you are experiencing chest pains etc etc hang up and dial 999 immediately, go on the website for other queries or go to the chemist. If you finally get through you then have to wait in a queue to be answered then you get to speak to a receptionist who asks about your symptoms and what you think is wrong!

Ambulances here are scarce and often take hours to arrive - partly because they are unable to leave patients they have taken to hospitals as there are not enough doctors to assess them.

Your neighbour obviously has problems, Bluebelle and needs help but perhaps not an ambulance.

Well I m misquoted I didn’t say the system was broken oopsadaisy well I didn’t mean to if that was the impression I gave
I think the system is over used by many and should be more regulated so that it’s not abused and I also think there should be a different triage place for drink and drug injuries I don’t believe these constantly self inflicted injuries should be clogging up mainstream hospitals Yes I know lots of injuries and illnesses are self inflicted but they don’t happen every weekend a skier perhaps breaks his leg once in a lifetime even a smoker may have an asthma attack but not daily /weekly
Money much more money need putting into mental health, drug alcohol abuse social services police they have all been cut so badly under the Tories

* Callistemon* of course she does but if she rings 999 she has to have a response they and I know it’s the wrong service but can do nothing different

I agree BlueBelle. I watch the 999 and Ambulance programmes as well. Any medical programmes I find interesting.
I don't know if it's true but I've heard it costs £200 a time for an ambulance to come out.
I really don't know what the answer is.
It's the same with the A&E programmes I watch, I've thought in some cases a local doctor could have dealt with that surely but there again people can't get an appointment to see a doctor these days so it's a vicious circle.

BlueBelle

* Callistemon* of course she does but if she rings 999 she has to have a response they and I know it’s the wrong service but can do nothing different

You must have a very good ambulance service where you live, Bluebelle - I heard of an elderly woman who had an RTA not far from here, turned her car over and others went to help but no fire engine, no ambulance arrived. Others managed to get her out carefully and after 4 hours of waiting her family took her to hospital.

Anniebach

Many are judgemental and intolerant when it comes to mental
illnesses

You're right Annie and many people are having to wait weeks for counselling.

Quoting Iam64.

Iam64 Wed 09-Mar-22 11:17:27
‘Mental health problems ‘ has become a phrase used too often. People with schizophrenia, psychotic episodes, or significant depression /anxiety have treatable mental health problems.

Treatable not curable though.
My brother-in-laws brother who lived just up the road from me had paranoid schizophrenia for 40 years and was on medication.
He lived with his mum and dad. Dad died and mum died just a few years ago leaving him on his own. Psychiatrist discharged him at that time just when he needed that support the most.
He got worse and my sister phoned to tell them as she was concerned and they changed his medication.
On the new tablets he was threatening to end his life.
He seemed better, not cured on his old tablets but they refused to change the medication back again.
He took an overdose and died.
Anxiety and depression is treatable with medication but again not always cured. People live for years with these illnesses even on medication but as there's a stigma with the subject they keep it all to themselves and cope as best they can and tell people they're ok. They're very good actors. I know from experience and of others.
Most doctors need educating more on mental health illnesses. They haven't a clue some of them.
I always say, no one knows what it's like unless you've been there.

sharon103 I hope my post didn’t read as dismissing or judging mental health problems. It wasn’t intended in that way. Im aware of the devastating impact of mental health on the sufferer and their loved ones

Sago

I called an ambulance pre Covid for my mother who was 90 at the time.
I was told by her GP practice to dial 999.
This was a Tuesday morning, I was told the wait could be 2-3 hours, I drove my mother to A&E, she was seen 8 hours later, this was because she hadn’t arrived by ambulance.
When she was seen I was criticised for not calling an ambulance.

Many people think that to arrive in A&E by ambulance is a guarantee to be seen sooner. This simply isn’t true! Why do you think there are so many ambulances queuing outside on a daily basis?

People are seen on the basis of how sick they are, at least that is what is supposed to happen, depending on how competent the triage nurses are.

Every year we are told that extra amounts of money are going to be pumped into improving mental health services, but nothing ever changes. The amount of people who phone 111 because they have been unable to contact their own mental health services is ridiculous!

You’re quite right Sharon. I have had depression for upwards of 40 years and medication and that ability to act which you mention make me appear perfectly ‘normal’. You wouldn’t know. There are days when the black dog makes his presence keenly felt though. I have always been very open about my condition, which will never be cured, as I feel that’s the only way for people to accept that you can have mental health issues without appearing to be somehow peculiar. I have been lucky never to encounter any prejudice but I know that stigma still exists, maybe more amongst people older than I am (71). I consider myself very fortunate not to suffer from a more serious mental health condition which manifests itself very obviously in the sufferer and causes the sort of problems referred to above and makes holding down a job and maintaining relationships nigh on impossible. I’m ok with pills - those poor people need so much more and its provision is patchy in the extreme.

There's often a link between alcohol/ drug addiction and mental health issues. Addicts are often self medicating with drugs or alcohol and sadly end up with serious health problems as well as the under lying mental health problem. Yes, there are medicines that can help with controlling the symptoms of mental health illnesses but rarely are they a cure . Although we have progressed so far in treating diseases and injuries, sadly we haven't made little progress when it comes to treating mental health illnesses, there is still a huge stigma attached to it and because of the behaviours associated with mental illness, sufferers often end up alienated from their friends and family and unsupported. I'm sure this is why they become such a problem for the ambulance/A&E/GP services. No solutions I'm afraid, I wish I had!

I did watch a TV program dealing with ambulance calls and it seemed that some people couldn’t cope with the money they received from the government every month, spending it on as much as they could drink. It was said on the program that they queue up for the moment when the money comes through into their bank account. This money used to be paid into their landlord’s account for their rent but the government changed the system giving the tenant command over the money. If these people cannot deal with benefits and I am not talking about those that can, maybe these people should be put on the ‘old’ system.