What’s happening to P and O

Plunger

Appears the Bristish staff have been made redundant and foreign staff employed to replace them. I might be wrong, but I thought if redundant the position no longer existed. You couldn't make someone redundant then employ someone to do the exact same job. Also you can't sack someone arbitrarily you need a valid reason eg poor performance with minuted meetings as a warning.

The "replacements" are not foreign. And they're not being employed by P&O. They are agency staff.

I was always under the opinion that if people are made redundant their job nolonger exists so how can they have people to take their places,

Iam64

Grandmabatty

All 800 staff have been sacked and an agency has taken over, implying that they will employ at a cheaper rate.

Disgusting and is it legal? Dubai based owners but if the employees are British, surely our employment laws prevail

I do not think the nationality of the workers comes into this at all.

The owner of the shipping line and presumably the head office of the company are in Dubai, so the fact that some of his ships sail from Dover and are staffed, or were staffed by British citizens has nothing to do with the terms of employment, unless a British union has approved these.

It should be interesting to see how the RMT wriggle out of this, having recommended their members vote for Brexit, and lets remember that Dover was one of the big Brexit supporting areas. I am not saying it serves people right, but honestly, what did people think was meant when there was talk of getting rid of red tape? All the sneering remarks about Health and Safety gone mad, all the untrue stories about EU legislation crippling good old British common sense? I have read it on here, those applauding the bonfire of the regulations, and it is interesting to see how many of those who trumpeted the benefits of Brexit and breaking free from the pesky EU are now up in arms about what will be the first of many similar episodes. Be careful what you wish for.

Whether it is legal or not depends on where the company that employs them is registered. If they're employed by a UK company on UK terms they have more rights. I would imagine that an agency would only employ them on short-term contracts, probably with few rights such as holidays, sickness pay, pensions, security of employment etc etc.
It certainly is sheer greed, I'm sure the management wouldn't be happy to be employed on those terms.

I do not think the nationality of the workers comes into this at all.

You don't find it strange that nationals of EU member countries haven't been sacked, grandtanteJE65?

The agency they are using for staff is based in Malta!

Some misinformation on here. The practice of being replaced after being made redundant has always been the same. They just change contracts/job descriptions/ make people ‘reapply’. There are many ways of getting around it. Nothing to do with Brexit. And before Brexit foreign workers were replacing British workers for less money. Also forcing down pay rates. Companies have been behaving this way for many years. Even under Labour! How about that! I think a lot of people have ‘different recollections’ about what actually happened. Or just didn’t know what was going on. Who knows.

ShazzaKanazza

Well I’ve just heard on Talk Radio they are getting rid of all British staff and replacing with foreign staff. Surely not! It’s not illegal apparently. But don’t quote me.

Yes. They have replaced all the UK staff with foreign agency staff. Terrible state of affairs, but as usual the good people are pulling together and local businesses are offering many jobs to those poor people who have been made redundant with no warning.

Modompodom

ShazzaKanazza

Well I’ve just heard on Talk Radio they are getting rid of all British staff and replacing with foreign staff. Surely not! It’s not illegal apparently. But don’t quote me.

Yes. They have replaced all the UK staff with foreign agency staff. Terrible state of affairs, but as usual the good people are pulling together and local businesses are offering many jobs to those poor people who have been made redundant with no warning.

No. No. No.

The agency could be based in Outer Mongolia for all we know but the people they are providing are mainly British.

I think the ships were reflagged due to Brexit. If this is the case, this island has little merchant navy left. In terms of trained seafarers and available ships how would that affect our national security? The merchant navy provided support in the Falklands conflict.

It is now reported that the company that owns P&O Ferries paid shareholders £270m in May 2020, while they were receiving millions from the Government to cover 80% of employees wages during the pandemic.

Moth62

I think the ships were reflagged due to Brexit. If this is the case, this island has little merchant navy left. In terms of trained seafarers and available ships how would that affect our national security? The merchant navy provided support in the Falklands conflict.

Volver, where did you get the information that the agency staff are mainly British?

From the Aussie guy on Jeremy Vine this lunchtime who works for the agency and walked off the bus taking people into one of the ports yesterday to take over the ships, when he realised what was happening. Who said he was one of the few people there who wasn't British.

So, a bloke who was actually there.

Could have been making it up, I suppose...

Of course it's because of BREXIT. We are no longer protected by EU law. And, Johnson's Government voted down a raft of employment protections last Autumn. I don't think it will be the last example we'll see of BREXIT bonuses.

Plunger

Appears the Bristish staff have been made redundant and foreign staff employed to replace them. I might be wrong, but I thought if redundant the position no longer existed. You couldn't make someone redundant then employ someone to do the exact same job. Also you can't sack someone arbitrarily you need a valid reason eg poor performance with minuted meetings as a warning.

I don't know the nationality of the replacement workers, although I read (not sure it's true) that some of them are likely to be Columbian.

It's not really relevant what nationality they are.

P & O has been able to sack the British workers because their contracts were signed in Jersey, which means they're not covered by UK laws. In any case, there are ways of getting round "fire and hire" practices - much more difficult in the EU.

Unfortunately, "firing and hiring" is possible and much more common than people think. This is what libertarians, such as Patel, Sunak and Rees-Mogg, have been advocating for years and why they disliked the "constraints" of the EU. Unfortunately, they were supported by the RMT pre-referendum, so I'm not impressed with the RMT's current hand-wringing.

Maremia

Of course it's because of BREXIT. We are no longer protected by EU law. And, Johnson's Government voted down a raft of employment protections last Autumn. I don't think it will be the last example we'll see of BREXIT bonuses.

Not only have workers lost EU employment laws, but British workers are less valuable to international employers because they've lost their freedom of movement.

Trade on the routes operated by P&O Ferries had already decreased before Covid, as a direct result of Brexit, but this isn't just about P&O having less profitable routes. It's about being able to hire workers dirt cheap. Brexit has enabled them to hire anybody from any part of the world where the cost of labour is lowest.

P&O are currently moving away from operating ferries into investment in "free ports" (ie international money laundering hubs) and property.

One of the agencies is called Columbia Shipmanagement. That doesn't mean they are Columbians.

Here's one of the agency staff. The Aussie bloke who actually lives in Hull.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-60792999?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA

It really doesn't matter what nationality they are, but trying to make out they are foreign workers taking our good British jobs, that is not on, is it?

Agree with Gillycats. I have first hand experience of this. The well established British owned large company I worked for has been letting go of company employed drivers and operatives for years. They have been replaced by agency staff on short term contracts. Pay was slashed together with sick pay, decent pensions and any job security. I didn't see EU regulations doing anything to stop this.

I think if a boat is registered in another country ( not uk) then they don’t have to abide by uk rules so they can just lay their staff off without notice if they want!

It doesn’t matter if British or not 800 ppl are losing their jobs for no fault of their own. While fat cats get pay rise again. It’s good that the strikes are going on in support of the ppl that have lost jobs but it’s not going to make any difference because they is always someone to take jobs.

Plus it’s telling that the EU staff on the ships haven’t lost their jobs.

Some of the British “ replacements” have walked off once they found out what was happening. Will all these replacements be fully trained?

This has nothing to do with cruise ships P&O ferries is separate and has been for over 20 years

patrish

This has nothing to do with cruise ships P&O ferries is separate and has been for over 20 years

Point has been made several times already...

How do you feel about the owners of P&O Ferries running a 'freeport' where a bonfire of employment legislation can take place?

Just getting a bit of practice in here...