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I will just leave this here and duck for cover

(178 Posts)
Granny23 Wed 23-Mar-22 10:01:18

From today's National News Paper

"6 out of ten Scots believe the UK will not exist in its current form in 10 years’ time, according to a new poll which also puts backing for independence in the lead.

The latest survey, carried out by Ipsos, found support for Yes vote is at 50% compared to 43% for No, with 4% of voters remaining undecided.

Nearly half of people north of the Border also think the Union will not exist in five years’ time.

Across the UK overall, however, the proportion predicting the demise of the Union within the next decade has fallen slightly compared with early 2021 - from 56% to 50% in February this year.

Meanwhile, the poll also found the Scottish Government continues to attract more praise than the UK Government for its handling of the pandemic - both north of the Border and across the rest of the UK.
However, it highlighted that people in Scotland are the most pessimistic in the UK about the economic prospects in the coming months.

The Ipsos UK Knowledge panel surveyed more than 4000 people across the UK at the beginning of February,

“Scots remain more likely than those in England and Wales to say the UK will not exist in its current form for much longer,” the report said.

“As many as 61% of Scots say the UK will not exist in its current form in 10 years’ time, compared with 50% across the UK as a whole. 46% of Scots think it will not exist in 5 years’ time, compared with 33% across the UK as a whole.”
When it comes to views across the UK on whether Scotland should vote for independence, just over half of people in England and Wales say they would prefer it to stay part of the Union. However, the report notes views in Northern Ireland are less clear, with 42% saying they want Scotland to stay but 29% backing Scotland to leave the UK.

It also notes: “The Scottish Government continues to attract more praise than the UK Government for its handling of the pandemic, both among those in Scotland, and across the rest of the UK.
“Views of the Scottish Government are, unsurprisingly, most favourable in Scotland, where 59% say the Scottish Government has handled the pandemic well, compared with just 22% who say the same of the UK Government.”

The survey also found that slightly more people in England think the Scottish Government has handled the pandemic well, at 44% compared to 38%.

Across the UK, just 15% think the general economic condition of the UK will improve in the next 12 months, while 67% say it will get worse.

Expectations are even more pessimistic in Scotland, where 73% expect the UK’s economy to get worse in the next year.
“Meanwhile, although three in five Scots expect the demise of the UK within 10 years, those in England and Wales would still prefer Scotland to vote No in any second referendum.”

volver Fri 01-Apr-22 16:35:44

Even if every seat in Scotland had gone Labour it wouldn't have made a difference to the 2019 result. Labour will probably take more seats at the next GE but not enough to make a difference. So it would have to be a coalition.

But the whole basis of the SNP is independence, that's what the party was founded for and that's what it's about. So, riding high has they are, why would they hand over some "sovereignty" to the Labour party, if part of the reason for that was to save the Union?

Its been 300 years MayBee70, I don't think another 10 will make earth shattering changes for us. A desire for independence is not confined to "SNP Supporters", nor is it a result of the current Conservative government.

This will sound hard - but we're not here to save rUK from itself. People keep saying how an independent Scotland can't expect any support from England. Well it's true the other way round too.

MayBee70 Fri 01-Apr-22 16:12:09

Without a Scottish vote (or a coalition with the SNP) it’s going to be very difficult for Labour to form a government. So the SNP supporters will continue to say how awful the union is and how much they want to separate from it. So can I plead with our Scottish voters and say let’s all work together to make the union a fair and just society. And then, if that doesn’t work in, say, ten years time, call for another referendum. Because, by leaving the U.K. you’re just subjecting those of us in England to a lifetime of Tory governments and things are just going to get worse and worse.

volver Fri 01-Apr-22 16:07:27

I assume therefore he’s a unionist??

I think that's a fair assumption smile. Seriously, he's got very weird recently. Bit of an anti-lockdown advocate as well.

Urmstongran Fri 01-Apr-22 16:05:03

Thanks for the explanation volver. Yes it seems therefore that the SNP must be very popular. Fair enough.

Oh the ‘Coast’ guy! I recognise him. Thanks for the photo.
I assume therefore he’s a unionist??

volver Fri 01-Apr-22 16:02:59

Speak for yourself m'quine.

Aveline Fri 01-Apr-22 16:01:34

If we voted for independence we'd be both stupid and peripheral

volver Fri 01-Apr-22 15:55:07

Which is better, do you think?

Being stupid or being a discontented peripheral?

Katie59 Fri 01-Apr-22 15:53:49

It does not bother me one jot if Scotland or the other discontented peripherals go their own way, as long as they realise that they are not likely to be able to join the EU independently.
With an open land border with England that is not going to happen, of course a closed border is possible but is it really what they want.

volver Fri 01-Apr-22 15:49:44

OK, apologies for jumping to conclusions.

Neil Oliver was interviewed on GBNews a few weeks ago ranting about how the Scottish Parliament was set up to make it very hard for any party to get a majority. Which it was. He then made the point that since the SNP nearly got a majority, they must have found some trick to get themselves into power. Aye, the trick is that people vote for them confused.

The second vote on the ballot paper actually works against the party that gets most votes in the constituency vote. So no, there isn't a system that helps keep the status quo.

You do know who Neil Oliver is, you probably just haven't put two and two together. The Coast Guy!!

Kandinsky Fri 01-Apr-22 15:45:37

I wonder if England could vote on whether we wanted freedom from Scotland what the vote would be?
I reckon Scotland would be long gone.

Urmstongran Fri 01-Apr-22 15:43:17

No. I’ve no idea who he is volver.
My question was genuine.
There’s a second vote on the ballot paper isn’t there? I just wondered whether that helps keep the status quo.

volver Fri 01-Apr-22 15:36:28

Urmstongran

Does the election system in Scotland favour the SNP?

You've been listening to Neil Oliver, haven't you?

volver Fri 01-Apr-22 15:35:39

Labour and Conservatives working together.

Aye, that'll work.

In the interests of clarity:

The funding for the yards did not come from any small business support pot, but from the Covid Business Resilience and Support Directorate.

This Directorate have given out £1bn so £20million is hardly a large part. It's 2%.

We've all agreed that the management was inept but there's no need to make stuff up now, is there?

Urmstongran Fri 01-Apr-22 15:28:19

Does the election system in Scotland favour the SNP?

Aveline Fri 01-Apr-22 15:23:35

It's only because the opposition is so fragmented. If Labour, Lib Dem and Conservatives worked together for the benefit of the country that SNP lot would be out on their ear.
Am currently fulminating having seen that a large part of the Covid funding for small business support was diverted to the failing shipbuilding yard doing such a disastrous job with the ferries.
Desperately poor decision making to add to litany of SNP failures. Millions wasted that could have been spent alleviating poverty. Am raging as you can probably tell!

Urmstongran Fri 01-Apr-22 15:16:11

Fair enough Barmeyoldbat.
I suppose if the SNP weren’t popular they wouldn’t keep getting voted in!

Petera Fri 01-Apr-22 14:42:11

volver

Aveline

One out of the last 15 polls all of which did not want another referendum. Wouldnt put much credence on it. The sheer incompetence of the handling of the ferries debacle even made the main news last night.

Hope you're sitting down Aveline

The handing of the ferries contract is inept. How can they not have included penalty clauses?

Anyway, still haven't changed my mind about independence. wink

The handling was inept; and in my opinion they're the wrong ferries.

However I do find it amusing that anyone who supports a government that gives Chris Grayling responsibility can actual utter the word "ferries" with a straight face.

Barmeyoldbat Fri 01-Apr-22 14:31:23

Well Urmsgran, runny down Nichola for not resigning over various deeds. Can I just ask what about Johnson and his lies etc, they far outweigh anything that has happened in Scotland

volver Fri 01-Apr-22 14:22:25

Being a Unionist and supporting the UK is a perfectly honourable position, you know I think that Aveline.

People who rip into the leader of the SNP, calling her an idiot and making out she's got some magical hold over the country, then calling us stupid; not so much.

Aveline Fri 01-Apr-22 14:14:30

OMG I nearly fainted volver! I know you're a fan of independence rather than SNP but I still desperately want to remain part of the United Kingdom. The name says it all.

volver Fri 01-Apr-22 14:12:09

Aveline

One out of the last 15 polls all of which did not want another referendum. Wouldnt put much credence on it. The sheer incompetence of the handling of the ferries debacle even made the main news last night.

Hope you're sitting down Aveline

The handing of the ferries contract is inept. How can they not have included penalty clauses?

Anyway, still haven't changed my mind about independence. wink

volver Fri 01-Apr-22 14:07:35

Urmstongran

"Skip to the good bits and don’t mention our ‘failures’, SNP and Greens tell speechwriters"
Well, it'll keep the speeches short and to the point...

Telegraph journalists discover how political speeches work.

grin

Aveline Fri 01-Apr-22 14:06:14

One out of the last 15 polls all of which did not want another referendum. Wouldnt put much credence on it. The sheer incompetence of the handling of the ferries debacle even made the main news last night.

volver Fri 01-Apr-22 14:05:41

Lyng17

Want to be independent but in the EU. Sounds like a contradiction to me.

Be honest. You voted for Brexit, didn't you?

Urmstongran Fri 01-Apr-22 14:05:00

"Skip to the good bits and don’t mention our ‘failures’, SNP and Greens tell speechwriters"
Well, it'll keep the speeches short and to the point...