Menus required to state calories per. dish

nahsma

But there have been medical specialists on R4 pointing out that this will just cause more trouble for people with eating disorders, plus a recovering anorexic saying that on the odd occasions she was dragged by family or friends to a restaurant she felt complete release - having no idea about the calorie content allowed her to eat.

So you'd rather people were in denial or ignorance about what they eat?

Oh dear - all those Easter eggs and hot cross buns on the shelves about to be chomped!

they have calories on the packaging though
I am so confused by this thread

JaneJudge

they have calories on the packaging though
I am so confused by this thread

Yes, they do.

They also say 'Eat Me, Eat Me'
?

growstuff

Personally, I don't think this goes far enough. As a T2 diabetic, I would like all restaurants to state carb content and to offer low carb food, which very many don't.

Totally agree. We have an obesity epidemic, huge amounts of resource and money poured into diabetes when for many carb counting and weight loss is extremely effective. Many people have no idea about calories, carbs etc.

I don’t understand the concern. If you don’t want to know then carry on but for many, this will be a helpful tool in helping them manage their weight and health themselves.

I read somewhere that we have become a 'nation of grazers'. Where people used to stick to their regular meals, many now snack a lot. The odd bar of chocolate, handful of biscuits, packet of crisps can easily double the number of calories consumed in a day.
I think that this probably has a lot more to do with weight gain than the occasional restaurant meal, though quite a few people eat a lot of takeaways.
I see no harm in showing the calories count on menus. You either find them useful, or you don't. I find it strange that some posters on here are getting het up about it.

I think it’s a waste of time most people won’t bother with that piece of information they will eat what attracts them
(Some places already do it and I don’t think it stops people eating what they enjoy) I think Wetherspoons do it, I m not sure as I haven’t been in there for years
As a non meat eater I m already restricted to three or four dishes per establishment and I have my favourites and would not change I would much rather restaurants/pub grub/ cafes upped their game with vegetarian, vegan and gluten free recipes We have a popular modern drinking/eating place here that has had the same three (very) tired vegetarian items since they opened 15 years ago (none of them I like and I end up eating chips and salad there) my friend who is gluten free usually ends up eating a jacket potato where ever we go
Another friend who is quite a severe type 1 diabetic already knows exactly what she can and can’t eat

Does anyone read the calories on packets of food they buy from shops (I only do when I’m dieting) I can’t even see them on most packages even with a magnifying glass a bigger problem for me is why do they use white lettering on a pale coloured background

Anything that helps to tackle obesity is good. I like seeing calories as it nudges me towards more healthy eating.
What I would like to see is half portions on the menu. Portion sizes seem to get bigger all the time and I end up taking half home as I can’t bear waste!

Most large businesses have had this information available either online or at source for years. It can be helpful and I think at times useful. I dont eat out often these days. In the past ,although knowledgeable about calories,it has helped me make healthier choices. On other occasions I have chosen something I like that I wouldnt have at home.
In general I think the biggest issue is the relative cheapness of high fat/ sugar foods compared to the cost of healthier ingredients. Access to healthier foods can also be problematical for those on low incomes who dont drive and rely on local small shops.
Maybe it should be more of a focus as part of education?
There may be grans here who are more familiar with cookery taught in schools currently?
I was discussing this with my daughter recently.
My mum cooked from scratch. I took Domestic Science which not only covered the basics of cookery but nutrition and how to relate this to different groups such as childeren and convelescants etc.
My eldest daughter took food technology and more emphasis seemed to be placed on food production and repetitive recipes.!
That knowledge has stood me in good stead over the years. I can cook tasty nutritious meals from scratch and if needed very economically. Currently I think these skills are vital.

I don’t see why any of the things people have mentioned couldn’t be done because of calories being listed. Restaurants listing calories will attract people on calorie controlled diet, and if enough people push for carbs (or sugar, or protein) to be listed they will do it to attract those customers too. It’s not a case of one or the other.

Cambia, the trick is to ask the server 'do you do small portions?' I always do this and have real success. The response is often a jocular 'Yes but it's a well kept secret' or 'Yes but we don't advertise it'. If I can't have a smaller portion (which is rare) I often resort to two starters which adds variety. I love eating out and do so regularly with no problems. Lost a lot of weight nine years ago without counting a single calorie and never put any of it back on. Life changing.

for sure there ought to be much more info on the carb content of foods, having been diagnosed as prediabetic I am constantly surprised at the carb content of some foods, obviously some you know are high, but dishes with lots of ingredients are much harder to judge

It isn't just about the price of high fat food, it is also about the lack of mental health support in this country. A packet of biscuits and a bottle of wine is far cheaper than a private counselling session

katy1950

Nanny state once again you know if you are over weight and you know what to so about it no excuses

Actually no. Have a look at YouTube uploaded debates on the subject - they’re an eye opener. The one that springs to mind is an upload of a recent Channel 4 debate between advocates of ‘fat doesn’t necessarily mean unhealthy’ point of view, and dietitians with various specialties. One lady was in her early twenties and disclosed that she was 25 stone and had no health issues. I’m sorry if my description offends anyone - it’s not intentional as I have had weight issues all my life and know how it feels. But this lady was enormous. She had to stand to speak into the microphone and she clearly struggled to get out of the chair.

The dietitian tried to explain how her weight would affect her health as she got older - ability to mobilise, risks of heart disease, cancer, type 2 diabetes. To absolutely no avail - this lady had an answer for everything, to the point where she insisted that her GP had said she was healthy, and that she ate normally and healthily. She was receiving support for her point of view from other members of the audience and their stance seemed to be that there was nothing wrong with being grossly overweight and that stereotypical body image was to blame, as was society’s ‘obsession’ with dieting and weight management. Nothing at all to do with their own unwillingness to recognise that there was a problem or to engage with the obvious health risks they were running, and they were clearly all in total denial.

I’m not saying that all overweight people have the same problems because admittedly these are extreme examples, but to claim ‘nanny state’ and dismiss the problem is just enabling behaviour which puts further strain on an already overstretched NHS. People overeat and become overweight for a variety of reasons - and some are genuinely not informed, or are in denial about what and how much they are eating, so they try to put the blame on anything but their own culpability. Putting calorie and carb counts on all menus would be helpful in educating people about sensible eating, but we also need to recognise the scale of the problem in the UK and develop a proper health strategy to deal with it.

Giving people information is not being a Nanny state. If an obese person comes into a restaurant and orders food with enough calories to last them for a weekend and has beer and a pudding and Irish coffee they will be served. The server will not say as a Nanny might ''that is far too much Jo, now you can have a salad, a diet coke and an espresso, do you want a ham salad or an egg salad. '
It is giving people information that they can use or ignore, much as many people ignore the alcohol content info about booze
I knew I was too fat, after lockdown, but it was a bolt from the blue when I was told I was prediabetic. So am losing weight and learning to make lower carb food choices that will reduce my risk of actually becoming diabetic, T1 diabetics have no choice about it but how many T2 diabetics might have changed their lifestyle if they had been told that they probably would develop diabetes unless they did something about it. I was offered a course on preventing diabetes, wasn't forced to take it, what a lot I've learned
I don't count calories but certainly having the info there to help you make the choice about what you order is helpful not nannying. When I've lost all the podge I need to and lowered my risk of diabetes [and heart disease etc] I have no doubt that I will on occasion go out and enjoy a meal without considering what it is doing to my weight and arteries but I'd still like to know so that I can cut down for a few meals. many on the prevention course say as I do that eating out is a worry and while just the calories do not give the whole picture they are a helpful guide
They are not there to make anyone feel guilty
The sort of 'restaurant' that the law applies to is maybe not the restaurant of choice for an anorexic person, they probably have a pretty good idea already, and while I feel sorry for anyone who suffers in this way the facts are the facts whether or not they are on the menu. No one is saying that it is nannying that food items in the supermarket have calories on, and food items are an everyday thing for someone with anorexia. Many more people are at risk of illness from obesity and not only illness, quality of life, life expectancy, the cost to the health service etc

And I do know that yes there are medical reasons for being overweight and some conditions make it harder to exercise or to lose weight and for them, it is not simple calorie/sin/whatever counting that they need. Some people may be unable to cook for themselves for whatever reason, some travel with their job, and tend to rely on cheap restaurants or take aways, lorry drivers, people who travel doing any number of jobs, some may have been brought up to believe that you must empty your plate however full you already are, my ex was like that, and felt he needed to eat up anything anyone else had left because they were full, but many other people feel that if you eat it all up you need more food until you leave a bit, different cultures I guess, unpicking things like that might be useful
My guess is that the calorie info will be in pretty small print, not easy to read at all, much like info on food is, so you need glasses and good light to see it
Nobody should feel guilty about making an informed choice, about what they eat. If you make an informed choice and overeat things that contribute to bad health no one else can make you feel guilty, if you do not know then how can you reasonably feel guilty for deciding something that you didn't know about
Back in the 'good old days' many people did not eat treats every day, hot cross buns were for Good Friday, easter eggs for Easter Sunday, if you had a cake it was maybe a one a week and when it was gone it was gone, big meals were not an everyday thing, many people only had fish and chips on a Friday when I was younger and lots of people did a lot more exercise, walking more, there were fewer cars, doing more physical jobs, even housework burned many more calories than nowadays and children walked to school and played out more and did more PE so even if some less good choices were made to fill bellies instead of because of the nutrition people didn't get fat like they do today until they slowed down and kept eating as they had always done, stew and dumplings is good for a farm labourer for example, but not so good for a retired labourer

icanhandthemback interesting re the fat - as a T2D I eat low carb high fat as the fat is good for me

PaperMonster

icanhandthemback interesting re the fat - as a T2D I eat low carb high fat as the fat is good for me

But only within reason is fat good for you - and it depends on what type of fat and the proportions.For type 2 diabetics a daily fat intake of no more than 25%-35% of your total daily calories is recommended, and no more than 7% of your daily calories from saturated fat, 10% or less from polyunsaturated fats, and up to 20% from monounsaturated fats (like plant oils or nuts). Carbs are 50%-60% of your daily calories with the aim of including 20-30 grams of fibre daily.

What Governments should have done, years ago, is to incentivise the food manufactuers to gradually reduce hi carb sugars in foods over, say 10 years, so that the human pallete gets used to less sweetness. Calorie counting, or putting taxes up on foods makes no difference. It's like people who smoke. I did for several years but gave up when they were £2.50/20 (a long time ago) as I preferred to save for a holiday abroad. I feel really sad for people (quite often pensioners) paying around a tenner for 20 cigs.
Hopefully, restaurant meals are a once/twice a week (or month) treat.

Pammie1

PaperMonster

icanhandthemback interesting re the fat - as a T2D I eat low carb high fat as the fat is good for me

But only within reason is fat good for you - and it depends on what type of fat and the proportions.For type 2 diabetics a daily fat intake of no more than 25%-35% of your total daily calories is recommended, and no more than 7% of your daily calories from saturated fat, 10% or less from polyunsaturated fats, and up to 20% from monounsaturated fats (like plant oils or nuts). Carbs are 50%-60% of your daily calories with the aim of including 20-30 grams of fibre daily.

I'm T2 diabetic too. There is no way 50-60% of my calories could come from carbs without sending my blood glucose sky high. I don't care what the NHS or Diabetes UK says about this. I know from testing myself and HbA1c results.

effalump

What Governments should have done, years ago, is to incentivise the food manufactuers to gradually reduce hi carb sugars in foods over, say 10 years, so that the human pallete gets used to less sweetness. Calorie counting, or putting taxes up on foods makes no difference. It's like people who smoke. I did for several years but gave up when they were £2.50/20 (a long time ago) as I preferred to save for a holiday abroad. I feel really sad for people (quite often pensioners) paying around a tenner for 20 cigs.
Hopefully, restaurant meals are a once/twice a week (or month) treat.

TBH it's not just sweet foods which cause problems, but stuff like pastry and anything with thickening agents.

growstuff

Pammie1

PaperMonster

icanhandthemback interesting re the fat - as a T2D I eat low carb high fat as the fat is good for me

But only within reason is fat good for you - and it depends on what type of fat and the proportions.For type 2 diabetics a daily fat intake of no more than 25%-35% of your total daily calories is recommended, and no more than 7% of your daily calories from saturated fat, 10% or less from polyunsaturated fats, and up to 20% from monounsaturated fats (like plant oils or nuts). Carbs are 50%-60% of your daily calories with the aim of including 20-30 grams of fibre daily.

I'm T2 diabetic too. There is no way 50-60% of my calories could come from carbs without sending my blood glucose sky high. I don't care what the NHS or Diabetes UK says about this. I know from testing myself and HbA1c results.

Everyone is different arent’ they ? My partner is Type 2 and around 50% of his calories come from carbs, but he eats a very high fibre diet and is very active, so I suppose it’s swings and roundabouts. I was really questioning the previous posters’ comments about the fat content of a Type 2 diet.

Ridiculous waste of time and money. Unless you’re making a determined effort to lose weight ( and it’s not about calories anyway) nobody will take any notice.

What it will do is make people who are vulnerable to eating disorders worse ( especially teens and twenties) Since the pandemic referrals for eating disorders to CAMHS has more than doubled. It won’t help the obesity crisis and it will increase the young peoples mental health crisis. Nobody in government thought this through at all.

My husband has lost four and a half stone since last August. He started with a free 12 week Slimming World referral by his GP, and has kept going ever since. It clicked with him after many years of denial about his weight gain.

He's found the inclusion of calories on menus very helpful and it helps him see where he can make some better choices.

The first moment of horror for him was realising just how many calories are in his coffee of choice, a Latte.
He now orders an Americano with a splash of hot milk: similar taste and far fewer calories.

Hetty58

I think that most of us are quite well aware of what healthy eating is. I, for one, choose exactly what I fancy when we eat out, though - regardless of calorie content, so won't be reading about it!

Sorry I disagree, I think that a huge percentage of us are totally unaware of what healthy eating is.
You may be, I may be but you only have to look around to see that many of the population haven’t quite grasped it.
I won’t be too bothered by the calorie count because I so rarely eat in the restaurants that will have to comply. In the same way that if I have, for example, a coke I will have the original. I may drink about 2/Year so the calorie count, to me, is immaterial.

I recently read 'Spoon Fed'by Tim Spector. He says that calorie calculating is useless, partly because it's difficult to accurately assess how many calories are in a meal ( do the restaurants genuinely burn each recipe in a calorimeter machine, or is a guesswork?)

The other reason he gives is that everyone's body processes calories differently, so one person's ideal number of calories is either too much or too little for someone else.