Care home / nursing home fees

So did the SW have any suggestions?
Just wondering...

I’m wondering too !

Yes sorry the suggestion from the SW was, choose a care home that comes within the LA approved amount. So then if the person lives long enough to use up their own savings / equity then the council will take over the payments without the resident having to move to a cheaper home.
You can check how much each local authority will pay to be sure.

Ah Thankyou Secretsquirrel - makes sense ?.

My mother is in a lovely care home that we found for her. She is self funding at the moment but if the money runs out we hope the home will accept what the LA is willing to pay. They seemed to indicate they will, but it’s not written in stone. And it depends if the LA will be prepared to pay for her, again the indications are that they will, but there is no guarantee. If she’s still with us in another year when her money will run out, it will be up to the LA/home if they will accept the situation and pay. If not, she’ll have to move. There’s nothing else I can do about it, but I will not agree to pay for her as I’m not rich and my savings and house have to be available for if either of us needs care in the future. It’s tough, but it’s how it is. I’ve done my level best for my mother, but in all truth she was not a good mother to me and there’s a limit as to what I’ll do, and that limit is using my own and my husband’s money to pay for her care.

You wonder what would happen if everyone said they wouldn't top up the fees when the person's money had reduced below the amount where they have to pay. There must be some requirement on Councils to find them somewhere but I doubt there would be enough places at their rate. I feel for the Councils as they don't get enough to cover current costs. However, the government should be challenged.

I seem to recall that some homes will accept the lower fee from the Council if a person has been with them for a certain length of time.

Also, it's worth looking at the charities that run homes. They may charge just as much as other homes but have one or two rooms for those paid for by the Council. If your relative has been in the forces, for instance, or was married to someone who was, it's worth checking if there is a home in your area run by one of the forces charities.

It is a minefield.

Are you suggesting DaisyAnne that I shouldtop up my mother’s care has fees if she’s still alive when her money runs out? What would I pay my own care home fees with if I use up all my money on my mother? I haven’t got that much money and what would I do when that money runs out? Remortgage my house?

Maddyone I said I wished everyone, even if they could and chose to afford it, would refuse to top up. But I can see why people who are paying dare not stop doing that.

I then added some things I had found when my mother went into a home. Nothing of what I said was about you. Go and be cross with someone else.

Some councils won't pick up the costs in higher rate homes even if the home lowers the fee. My sister runs the accounts for a large expensive home and that is what is happening there. It's not essentially an expensive area.

My mother was in an Abbeyfield specialist dementia home, where I’d guess that around half the residents were local authority funded, the rest (inc. my DM) paying higher fees. We looked at many homes before choosing this one, it certainly seemed the best, though by no means the most expensive.

She was 89 when she went in, and although she came from a long-lived family, none of the others had made it to 90 so I didn’t really think she’d last more than a couple of years.

However my elder sister and brother who had P of A were more cautious, and took out an annuity to cover the difference between her income and the fees until she died. This was some years ago now and rates were better then.

So thank goodness they did, since she went on to 97 - just short of 8 years - which to me was indicative of the excellent care she received. Though to be frank, she was in such a pitiful state during her last few years, a swifter end would have been more merciful.

My sister had worked out (re the annuity) that we broke even at roughly the 4 year mark. The annuity provider had obviously needed her health records etc. in order to make their calculations, so this was one where they lost.

Of course my mother was very unusual. During her time at the home I saw many others arrive, decline, and quietly disappear.

DausyAnne I apologise, I misunderstood what you’d written. Looking back I can see I didn’t read it properly. It was late and I was tired.

I hope my mother doesn’t last till she’s 97. Nothing to do with our difficult relationship when I was younger, and still to some extent now, but because she’s not in good shape. She needs a hoist to get her into and out of bed, as she can no longer bear her own weight. She has repeated UTIs and antibiotics leading to thrush in her mouth and elsewhere. She sleeps most of the time and mostly refuses to join in with the many lovely activities in the home. Her memory is going and she gets confused and has difficulties in doing things she did before ie use her phone. She has little pleasure in anything. Nonetheless she remains very determined to try to control me by asking me every time I visit to bring something for her the next day or when I visit next. She wants cream, a new cardigan, a new jumper, a new gilet, orange squash, butter mints, other sweets, oxo, bovril, lip salve, soap, the tv magazine, wipes, talcum powder, germaline, and other things. Most of these things are available to her in her home but she refuses to ask for them. Others on the list she already has got because I’ve already taken them in but then she wants a different brand or complains what I’ve taken in is wrong or no good. She asks for example for jelly babies, I take them in and she says she doesn’t like them.
I’ve had enough and I’m pretty sure she has too.

It is a minefield. We chose a very expensive nursing home for my OH as we guessed that he would not live long. We were right, and he also got continuing health care funding retrospectively from the health authority - he should have had it during his lifetime, but that is another sorry story.

The whole issue of the low ceiling above which SSD will not pay is a vexed one. and the situation where relatives are guilted into making up the difference is totally iniquitous.

The nursing home that SSD suggested for my OH, and that was below their fee ceiling was appalling - I sat in the car park and wept after seeing it - the idea that anyone at all, let alone my intelligent cultured OH, who had worked hard for the NHS all his life, should have to live there was beyond belief. The room was virtually in a basement; oil-painted brickwork on the walls, lino on the floor, an institutional hospital bed, a tiny window way above line of sight for someone sitting down with an iron fire escape running diagonally across it ........ and all for nearly £900 a week!

It is a disgrace, and the government's much heralded solution talks of money alone and nothing about quality.

Before all the homes were privatized the LA had proper control of standards at their homes. Now it is a free-for-all.

We knew Mum wouldn't be around for long. The care home we put her in was £6 k a month..
She, bless her was only there a month, before she passed away but she thought it was a Hotel.
It was only few years old, plenty of staff including quite a few registered nurses. With 5 restaurants, coffee bar, real bar, Cinema, Beauty saloon, several sitting rooms, terrace the works, stunning decor.
It really was 5 star but came at a price.

maddyone

DausyAnne I apologise, I misunderstood what you’d written. Looking back I can see I didn’t read it properly. It was late and I was tired.

It's find maddyone It was late and I could easily not have been as clear as I would like to be.

I would say the who system of care is a mess except that it is worse than that; there really is no system we can rely on

find fine!

IMO care homes like that are all very nice for people who don’t have dementia. If they do, cosy and homely are IMO much more important. My mother’s was purpose built for dementia, and IMO extremely well designed for it, plenty of e.g. ‘circular’ pacing space, wide corridors with grab handles all the way, 4 connected sections, each for 9 residents, all in a different main colour - blue, green, etc.

We looked at a considerably more expensive care home, that had extremely smart and stylish Homes and Gardens decor downstairs, but it was a converted hotel and the room they offered was very small and down a maze of narrow corridors - she’d have been permanently lost.

It was quite unsuitable, and yet they were perfectly willing to take her. My overwhelming impression of the place was of the cash registers ringing.

I agree Witzend my Mum was in such a specialist dementia care home for 7/8 years, then a nursing home for 2/3 before she died. Sadly the dementia home, which was lovely, could not provide nursing care.
It came at a price, obviously, roughly £500k for 10 years.

My mother’s care home is lovely. It was purpose built and is ideal for the purpose. We looked at some others but they were horrible and despite our difficult relationship I wouldn’t have put my mother in any of them. We loved the one she’s in from our first contact. Everyone is friendly, the staff are good, there are lots of lovely activities every day, but mum rarely goes to them. All the rooms are lovely and en-suite. Unfortunately mum can no longer use her bathroom as she has to have a bedpan instead and bed baths rather than showers. I cannot find it in my heart to wish long life to her as she now is physically, nothing to do with our difficult relationship. It is very expensive at £1225 per week, and that’s a special offer. We managed to get her in under a special offer. The normal price is £1350 per week. We have been told that when her own money runs out the LA will most likely fund her where she is as they don’t like to move old people when they’re settled and the home have said although the LA will pay less they are unlikely to not accept whatever the LA offer. However it’s not written in stone and we cannot totally guarantee it.

The whole system is a disgrace.
My mum chose to go into a care home after Dad died. It was lovely and she had a new lease of life, with no worries about where the next meal was coming from. Sadly she only lasted 6 months, as she died after a short illness. I don't know what would have happened if her money ran out. It was never discussed.
I guess if I need care my savings will not last long and I do not know what will happen after that. I dont want my family to be burdened. I wish we did not all live so long.

When I was working I knew several cases where the family had to move their relative into a cheaper care home once the LA picked up funding.
Our Council had a handbook of care homes and the opening blurb clearly stated that this is what would happen if you chose a more expensive setting.
Most councils used to block buy beds in care homes at a favourable rate to ensure there was availability, I don’t know if this still happens.
It’s not easy navigating the system.

The critical thing is quality. Everyone, whatever their financial circumstances should have quality care. Sadly that does not always happen.

My sister has been in a good but expensive nursing home since her stroke seven years ago. She had £300,000 in savings - all gone. After a huge struggle to get rid of her tenant, we at last managed to sell her house in February. For a year and four months the home had no fees from us, but they knew the situation. Our debt of over £100,000 has now been paid off. Should all the money from the house sale be used up (unlikely, as she is in end of life care) I know they would let her stay regardless of the LA amount.

My husband had power of attorney for his aunt. When she went into a care home, she had a certain amount of savings and a bank work pension which paid the fees initially plus her state pension of course. Once her flat was sold, my husband bought an annuity to cover the care home fees (plus inflation) for the rest of her life (which was about 5 years). He arranged it through a Saga financial advisor (who was very helpful) and I think the annuity was with Aviva. It seemed expensive at the time but it proved to be money well spent. She had more than broken even by the time she died. Not that Auntie knew anything about the arrangements in place to pay for her care.