What is your reaction to women when they “man bash?”

M0nica
“I particuclarly dislike people who rather than accepting that some people think differently to them, deliberately claim their opponents have said things that they clearly did not say.”
Agree M0nica.

*Rabbitgran. I am not generalising from my personal and I did specifically say I was not doing so.

What I said is that neither of us can generalise from our personal and I said nothing to suggest that I am denying the problems other people have had.

I particuclarly dislike people who rather than accepting that some people think differently to them, deliberately claim their opponents have said things that they clearly did not say.

M0nica
Very honoured that I remind you of your Gran, she sounds great! Generalising from the particular, yes, I know, the personal is political encompasses that. Unfortunately, though, institutionalised misogyny is general and not particular, just like other oppressive practices. so there has been quite an outcry recently about misogyny in the British Police and Armed Forces. And marches to reclaim the night, especially after the shocking murder of Sarah Everard. If women are safe from men, we would feel safe. But each oppressive act and experience is particular and individual as well as a general social practice. I am very glad that you have a long, happy marriage but, of course, you are generalising from your particular as well. I think that privileged people often deny other people's oppression and misery because it unsettles their complacent world view. People like to feel their good fortune is due to their individual virtue rather than social privilege or luck. I think that the current dehumanizing attitude towards immigrants to this country by some is a good example.

Kate1949

A relative of mine joined in a conversation at work only to be told by a young woman 'You are a white, heterosexual male. No one cares what you think'.

In short he is normal and if the world is not to completely implode he has a legitimate right to comment/discuss. That is not to say he is right or wrong, whatever that may be!

Oh, I know what I meant. I think.

There's bashing and bashing.
I loathe the kind of bashing I see women on here, by women, about other women.

I'm uncomfortable with people bashing in general really.

I don't care if a man wants to joke that I fill my flat up with cushions (I do!) or that I order a salad then want half of what's on his plate (it's true!)

If he wants me to cover my face, or multilate my genitals, or seek his permission to do everyday things, then that's a whole other ballgame.

Rabbitgran, you remind me of my gran, - generalising from the particular -

I spent most of my working in the engineering industry and I have been married happlily for over 50 years. I am not going to generalise from my particular, merely say that not everyone's experience is the same.

Manbashing is political, it's women recognising our oppression but it's quite difficult for certain women to understand this. Perhaps because they have accepted the status quo with little thought or don't acknowledge their own position. It 's realistic and not bitter to object to oppressive behaviour and social structures. The reason that I manbash is that I find a lot of men feel entitled by male privilege to treat me and most women in a patronising, belittling, aggressive manner or worse. I have been treated badly by men and for that reason, I don't trust them. I often do enjoy their company but when I have been in a marriage or romantic relationship, the rot sets in quickly and they become very selfish. If I object to the lack of mutuality, I am gaslit or told that I am a nag. My first husband resented the time I spent with our children and told me that I was unnatural to want children. Ironically, he was a school teacher/headmaster. My second husband is emotionally lazy and narcissistic and made very little effort with my children, his stepchildren, despite them behaving well towards him. I could not trust him to do his best for them. I hate the fact that both my husbands have tried to make me feel bad about the children and it makes me hate them. They are successful, fine adults now and I very much regret that I provided them with such poor father figures. In my next life, I fantasize that I will concentrate on my career so that I am empowered and will be a single mum to my lovely children, will certainly not risk a live in relationship with a man. The personal is political and thank God for feminism which provides an analysis of the patriarchy under which we all live. We used to have consciousness raising groups in the 70s and 80s and to my mind, man bashing is an informal version of this. It's political act and women should not be made to feel guilty about this, especially by other women. Try a little compassion and loyalty towards your sisters.

I hate any kind of person bashing, it is a mindless reaction from people incapable of original thought, or, occasionally, someone who has had a bad experience and generalises from the particular to the general.

I have a friemd who man bashes, with some reason,her father was a bully, who despised women and she only married to have children and (in the 1960s) was over 30 and was worried about delaying childbirth too late. Her choice of husband was a man who was obsessed by rugby. Some men do have obsessions. He wasn't violent or bullying, it was just they had nothing in common beyond a desire for children.

When she does it. I simply ignore it and talk of other things.

Sara1954

I have worked for years in an environment where I have to deal with a lot of reps.
To be honest it’s nowhere as bad as it was, but on a couple of occasions I’ve refused to deal with a company because of the attitude of its rep, sexist jokes, derogatory comments about women, where’s your boss then love?
Also, I’ve had lots of laughs with male colleagues and reps, it’s just a case of not letting things go too far.

and why should we put in that situation?

Saggi I'm sorry your husband doesn't care for you as he should, that must be so hurtful.
I don't think we really meant to include circumstances like yours in the man bashing, it's more about lumping all men together and making jokes at their expense like no multi tasking, can't figure out the washing machine etc. That's how I see it anyway.

I do not think men or women should hit each other if something is wrong they shouild be able to talk about it and sort it out we should respect each other we are all human beings and should act like in a proper manner

Even the best of us can be trumpian in our “locker room banter”.

Sometimes things are not always clear cut. A relation (by marriage) married a woman far older. She had been widowed at a very young age. They had three children. He is by no means perfect, but I, and other members of the family, began to notice how much she would put him down, all the time and very publicly. After quite some time, he had an affair and they separated and ultimately divorced. Of course one never knows what goes on in someone else’s relationship, but we always speculated that the constant undermining was a factor in his being unfaithful.

i agree with Elaine, she puts it very well.

I have worked for years in an environment where I have to deal with a lot of reps.
To be honest it’s nowhere as bad as it was, but on a couple of occasions I’ve refused to deal with a company because of the attitude of its rep, sexist jokes, derogatory comments about women, where’s your boss then love?
Also, I’ve had lots of laughs with male colleagues and reps, it’s just a case of not letting things go too far.

and seriously, if any of you have worked in male only environments in a female minority you will have heard stuff that will make your toes curl

Calling men on their behaviour and attitudes is not 'putting men down' 'men bashing' or anything else. It is calling people/men on their behaviour

Horrible - it seems the more of a feminist a woman is, the more she puts men down. My DH has said that this attitude makes men feel unwanted and useless - perhaps just as women used to feel when so called comedians made jokes about their wives and nothing positive was said. We are all individuals. I have come across two absolutely obnoxious men over the years, both of whom behaved in an arrogant and cruel way towards the women in their lives. Sadly, one of them was with my elder daughter, who is scarred by what she endured. That said, my DH, my DSs, my brother and the men that I know who are partners of friends are kind gentle people, and to denigrate them because of their sex is unkind and sexist.

I loathe it, especially as it is so untrue - as many of these posts have said. And when, sadly, it is true (I am so sorry Saggi) it is individuals who need calling to account.
Depending on the situation, I might ignore, I might take to task, or I might twist with a bit of humour.
It is very unhelpful, and OP, I would just look for small openings to say a little piece as and when you can. If we want to raise helpful, caring men, then we all have to treat them as being capable.
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I never really got the opportunity to complain about my late partner. He spent so much time telling everyone how utterly wonderful he was that it was hard to get a word in !

Given the real prejudices and abuse that women have been subjected to in the past - and to some extent still experience - I think a little "man bashing" is to be expected.

Mother in law and wife humour was the mainstay of many comedians and I don't recall there being much said about that at the time.

Whatever the topic of conversation: if you do not like it, or object to the tone of it, say so.

All through my childhood women when alone, or with only girl children present made remarks about men being babies when it came to illness or pain or the like.

As a schoolgirl I realised that a lot of this is far from always true.

As a young adult I frequently made myself unpopular with the holier-than-thou branch of Women's Lib when I pointed out that amusing as some of their remarks about men were, and valid as many of their objections about the inequality of the sexes were, they were not invariably right on either issue.

Nanamar, it depends entirely on how you get on with your DIL whether you can risk taking her up on her remarks about men. In your place I think I would feel tempted to ask her why she married one, if they are as she says, but perhaps better not.