Women’s anatomy and medical students

absent

Throughout nature the longer-living creature is, barring accidents, always the female because she bears and nurtures the next generation. Every species does this. It is why peahens, for example, look dull, drab and can easily conceal themselves from predators but peacocks are colourful to attract mates.

I think I read some serious article quite a while ago about how the "default" for a foetus is always female. Think about inherited diseases or problems that affect only those with Y chromosomes.

It is no surprise to me that medical science still regards male as the "norm". This has less to do with science and everything to do with so many centuries of the way women were regarded. It takes a very long time to undermine preconceptions

Sorry, but "we all start out female in the womb" is a myth. 99.999% of humans have either XX or XY chromosomes at conception and develop accordingly - the embryo's repoductive system can become visible as early as 8 weeks.

At various times I've been examined internally by both male and female doctors with no problems as to what is where, it's purpose and name.
I've come across much more ignorance from women themseives about their bodies.
I think also many men don't know much about their own genital system. Especially the prostate gland.
Having said that I've always asked to see a lady doctor when it's a gynae problem.

I think I have seen families of test dummies used in crash tests, but not often and, yes, I do think mail crash dummies are standard.

However men come in all sizes so what is safe for a 6 foot tall beefy rugby footballer, might be very unsafe for a 5ft 6 slight, light man and the same with female or child dummies.

I saw on a TV program that until recently cars are tested on male crash test dummies. So our safety is compromised, and difference in shape and size is not considered.

Mirren
‘ However, as Royal College of Obstetrics and Gynaecologists guidelines state: “In cases where pelvic examination under general anaesthesia is regarded as being of educational value, written consent must be obtained from the woman before she comes to the operating theatre.”
Plenty of these comments online, I doubt it was an urban myth, but hopefully Women are actually told if the Consent Form contains a section where you can opt out if you want to.
I’ve signed plenty of consent forms but not read the small print as I’ve not usually had the choice of whether to have the op or not.

There is a thriving trade in books and now also in internet advertisements, on the lines of "What doctors don't tell you" and "What lawyers don't want you to know" and "The secrets that xxxx's are terrified you will find out"

No wonder so many people think that "experts" is just another name for "people who know how to extract money from you by pretending to know more than you do"

Oopsadaisy ,
I think this story of students practicing internal examinations on anaesthetised patients is really an urban myth .
I trained as a doctor from 1975 to 1980 and have worked ever since. I am married to a retired Gynaecologist.
Neither of us have ever experienced or come across this dreadful practice.
It might have happened back at the dawn of time but not for decades and decades .
Students now have wonderful and detailed 3D models of every body part .
We carefully ask permission from patients before they meet students and the students are trained to be polite and respectful . They ask permission for everything, even taking a blood pressure. Showing respect and asking permission is a requirement of their exams too .
I think you could read the print off the consent forms before you ever found such a question .
Also , regarding female anatomy.... myself and my colleagues are very aware of the difference in the genders and the different nuances .
....and I do know about the anatomy of the thyroid too .
Please , don't believe the media.
It tells lies ... and frightens the gullible .

Oh geeze I don’t know if I want to be annoyed anymore by reading that book - like the original post , I couldn’t believe how long women have been medically treated as small men - stop the world I want to get off

Piskey

I’ve been subscribing to a magazine called ‘What The Doctor’s Don’t Tell You’ (WTDDTY) for several years now, and I was very surprised to read that pills/tablets, are normally tested on a 30 year old, fit man (only one type at a time). As so many people have more than one ailment, this didn’t make sense. Unfortunately bad decisions by medical staff have resulted in premature deaths, or misdiagnosed conditions in my family, so it doesn’t give much confidence in the medical profession. I think initial enthusiasm goes after a few years, perhaps too much paperwork and not enough support- which I think is evident in the way patients are having a job getting face to face appointments

This is complete and utter nonsense. Read any phase 3 clinical trial results paper and you will see what nonsense this is. “The Doctors” don’t tell you this because it is nonsense.

Thankyou Absentfor mentioning that the foetus by default is originally female.
In my nurse training many moons ago I can remember we were told this.The developing foetus in early stages always starts off as female, but if fertilsed by a Y chromosome sperm starts to grow male organs and becomes very clearly male.That is why men have nipples, the only clear reminder of their very early pre birth development.They also have a small amount of breast tissue behind each nipple, but not enough to develop breasts at puberty, which is dependant on the production of oestrogen in girls.This is the reason men can also get breast cancer, it is very rare, but can happen even in the small amount of tissue which is there.

I’ve been subscribing to a magazine called ‘What The Doctor’s Don’t Tell You’ (WTDDTY) for several years now, and I was very surprised to read that pills/tablets, are normally tested on a 30 year old, fit man (only one type at a time). As so many people have more than one ailment, this didn’t make sense. Unfortunately bad decisions by medical staff have resulted in premature deaths, or misdiagnosed conditions in my family, so it doesn’t give much confidence in the medical profession. I think initial enthusiasm goes after a few years, perhaps too much paperwork and not enough support- which I think is evident in the way patients are having a job getting face to face appointments

I'm part way through reading "Invisible Women". I have had to take it slowly as I get so angry. It's well researched and covers a range of issues. It's main thrust is the data gap which exists - the plethora of areas in which data or opinions have been gathered only for men and then used as the basis for decisions affecting females also. This can result in huge safety issues for women : wrong medical diagnosis and treatment, road traffic accidents leading to more serious injuries and fatalities for females, safety equipment for women in the military or emergency services being obstructive and unsuitable, ........
Women's metabolism, fat and muscle distribution, common presenting symptoms and more can be significantly different to men's.
There's more awareness but still some way to go I think.

It is a great shame that medical students no longer learn by dissection, both male and female bodies were provided. If they have only just brought out the female anatomical software, that is a huge omission!

Tuskanini

I think the program was exaggerating rather. But yes, there should be a whole branch of medicine focussing on women's issues. Hold on, there is. Gynaecology.

I think if you listen again you will realise that it was reported that women's bodies are significantly different to men's in multiple ways including many parts of the body, not just the reproductive organs. Therefore gynaecology is just one aspect. Can you say more about the exaggeration you mention?

I wish I had been asked I would have gladly said yes (even without being anaesthetised) if I thought that would train drs more effectively for the next generation of women.

I've pretty much stopped bothering with doctors and in particular consultants, there's really no point going. We recently moved and on registering with the GP practice, I had to attend an MOT going through my long list of conditions, I had to spell them so that they could check on the internet. The doctor registering me went to get a colleague to see if they'd ever heard of a couple of them.

I asked to be referred to the cardiologist, rhematologist, and neurologist, as well as the psych team and pain clinic, all of whom I've been told need to see regularly. Apparently I don't need to be under their care (despite them knowing so much that they were needing to check on the internet for the conditions I have), they did however refer me to a gynecologist, peculiar as I had a total hysterectomy donkeys years ago and have no issues in that area, I'm through the menopause, so not sure why, the clinic couldn't work out why either.

I just give up.

grandMattie

It shocking, isn’t it?
Try reading “Invisible Women” by Caroline Criado Perez, and you will be horrified. Would easily turn me into a radicalised feminist.

You will be even more shocked (& angry) if you read this. An example - seat belts only tested on male crash test dummies!

Pepper59

Argy margy, Im quite aware men have a thyroid gland, in a support group I attended there were many fewer men with thyroid issues. Sadly some men seemed to be ignored just as much as women were. Attitudes to women by medical professionals in my and others experience is far worse. They also tend to talk to you like you are a four year old. I hope you never get thyroid issues and meet the attitudes I have. Go onto the forums at Thyroid UK, read the experiences of thousands of women on the forums there and some awful stories. Then compare the amount of men on that forum. I hope you never suffer and I mean suffer with any thyroid issue. It's destroyed health, careers, relationships, yet we are the poor relatives for health care. You are either depressed or overeating. Anything but taken seriously. There was one man in my group who gave up going to the doctor at all. Other people spent thousands on private treatment. Most Endocrinoligists are patronising and follow outdated treatment from about 30 years ago and it's a worldwide problem, not just here.

I fully agree with everything you've said. I got no help except was given the usual Levothyroxine pills but my GP had to Google a question which I asked him regarding my TSH which he knew nothing about. Youre correct about the Thyroid forums being full of mostly women who can't get answers to questions thus can mean they are on the wrong dose of pills etc. Surely in this day and age Endocrinologists could be more help than they are.....that is if you can get your dr to refer you to one. I requested to see one repeatedly for years to be told the Levothyroxine was doing its job when I knew it wasnt. I finally got referred and found I was hearing the same old as my GP. I still after years don't know if I am on the correct mens as I've given up and with Covid closing the surgeries I have not had Thyroid bloods done in over two years.

argymargy

Pepper59

It's shocking how nearly all research has been done only on male health. We are half the population. I only hope this new medical marvel can help educate them in women's health, particularly the thyroid gland where ignorance abounds,in particular educate GP's and Endocrinologists. I was told by my own GP ( now retired). ' I know nothing about the thyroid gland'. If I had a pound for each time I heard this from different people, I'd be a very rich woman.

It may shock you to know that men have a thyroid too. GPS cannot possibly know about the entirety of the human body and its vagaries - hence we have specialists.

The specialists are the Endocrinoligists and you would expect them to be experts in their field. Most are not much better than the GP.

Heart attack symptoms can be extremely different for men and women but for years it was only ever the male symptoms that were warned about. As a young female with a blocked coronary artery my gp dismissed me inspite of a strong family history at a young aage.At my request she even said she would do a private referral and then didn't bother. The private consultant in the following letter to her described me as having all the symptoms, in other words a mild telling off. Her behaviour afterwards was even worse. So I think as I was a female she just didn't think it possible.

I think the program was exaggerating rather. But yes, there should be a whole branch of medicine focussing on women's issues. Hold on, there is. Gynaecology.

Many years ago I visited a medical school dissection room for a research project and I saw they had both male and female cadavers for the students to study. Obviously they were not focussing solely on the male body.

I also saw this piece on the news and could hardly believe it was true! Female anatomies are inevitably more complex than male. How on earth do you show where a uterus, ovaries or fallopian tubes are on a male anatomy?

Whilst there is a huge amount of truth in what is said here, I don’t think men’s health is prioritised. Having lost my husband to prostate cancer, where a simple blood test, done early enough would have saved his life. Medics won’t test based on false positives but oh I so wish I’d known we could have asked.

I have an unusual medical condition, and have to explain it to every single Dr I meet; apart from one Specialist in London. There are amazing gaps in medical training which worry me greatly...