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Nearly all children who socially transition (gender) remain transitioned

(24 Posts)
GagaJo Thu 12-May-22 12:35:30

I'm aware this will descend into a bun fight. But speaking personally, this is common sense.

Transitioning is hard. Children that do it know themselves.

uk.news.yahoo.com/nearly-transgender-children-socially-transition-194847852.html

Mollygo Thu 12-May-22 12:46:41

It’s possible to find statistics to back up anything.
If only a few children’s lives are ruined by transition, that’s unimportant in the world of statistics.
If only a few children had been damaged by thalidomide . . .
I never really get the idea that if statistics prove most . . . and the rest don’t matter, whenever it’s applied.

Blossoming Thu 12-May-22 12:51:50

There is insufficient data in that link to draw any useful conclusions. I’m not sure that Yahoo News is the best source for peer reviewed research.

maddyone Thu 12-May-22 14:40:35

Are children really transitioning at age three?
My experience of three year olds (parent, grandparent and teacher who taught nursery class for approximately ten years) tells me that three year olds pretend to be the other sex, Father Christmas, fairies, doctors/nurses, various animals and a variety of other make believe characters from books or films on a very regular basis. Sometimes they live as another character for a prolonged time, insisting that everyone call them by the character’s name. How can anyone seriously believe that a three year old can say they want to be the opposite sex and actually believe it? If they do they need to study child psychology for a while.

Germanshepherdsmum Thu 12-May-22 14:43:09

Trisher would usually be on a thread like this. I haven’t noticed her for some time. Hope she’s ok.

Kate1949 Thu 12-May-22 14:48:38

A couple on TV a while ago whose child was transitioning said the child had known since he/she was 18 months old. Strikes me as ridiculous.

Mollygo Thu 12-May-22 14:57:03

Agreed Maddyone. At age three, it’s possibly more the parents who think the child should be the opposite gender, possibly because they wanted a boy but got a girl or vice versa. Possibly because the child prefers to play with toys the parents think are indicative of the opposite gender-a very old fashioned point of view.
I currently teach the children of a 6 year old boy from the 1990s who spent any time allowed in the dressing-up corner wearing fairy wings or a ’bridesmaid’s dress’ and high heels and asking to be called xxxxx.
Nothing was said then , either by staff or children. Now sadly it would be an issue.

Riverwalk Thu 12-May-22 14:57:52

The academic paper referred to is entitled

Gender Identity 5 Years After Social Transition

Note the word 'Social'

It's easy to remain socially-transitioned for now - I think further down the line the majority of those young people now self-identifying will socially revert to the sex they were born with.

Galaxy Thu 12-May-22 15:38:25

I have noticed Trishers absence as well GSM ,and hope shes ok.

Iam64 Thu 12-May-22 15:42:08

I m another who noticed trisher’ s absence. I know she decided not to join the trans discussions but she’s noticeably absent on politics. She’d have views on the awful Tory mp and food banks.
Hope you’re ok trisher

Galaxy Thu 12-May-22 15:44:13

From what I understand a number of European countries are following watchful waiting rather than social transitioning as the children tend to become comfortable with their sex if there isnt social transitioning. Some of the top surgeons who have been performing transition surgery in America for years are suggesting caution as what we are seeing in terms of number of teenage girls wanting to transition is unusual.

Galaxy Thu 12-May-22 15:44:56

Yes and the Roe v Wade threads Iam64.

Nannarose Thu 12-May-22 16:04:26

As I am completely anonymous on here, I can tell you that watchful waiting with support has usually been the plan in the UK (well, certainly where I have worked) for a long time.
We used to be especially good with this.

I am long retired now, but previously, of the tiny number who wished to transition, most were male to female. Now I understand this is changing and very experienced people in this field are wondering why.

Maddy & Molly: I really can't comment on how this is handled now, but anyone I dealt with was not just doing the usual dressing up & pretend play that you describe.

Galaxy Thu 12-May-22 16:10:01

I think that probably used to be the case Nannarose.
However the whistleblowers at places such as the tavistock have been raising concerns in the last few years.

JenniferEccles Thu 12-May-22 16:15:03

Well I am sorry but children can’t possibly know themselves well enough to embark on this horrific change to their bodies and minds.
I am certain that sooner rather than later, the full horror of this will be known, and in the future people will be appalled that young children were subjected to this on the basis of what is often just a phase they are going through.

Is the trans lobby really so powerful that everyone is too scared to stand up to them?

Doodledog Thu 12-May-22 16:15:07

There is a big risk that, as you say, parents who can't deal with a gay child, and parents who are disappointed in the sex of the child they have got will encourage them to think that they are 'really' of the opposite one. We know that in countries like Iran it is 'allowed' to be transgender but not to be gay. I don't know how that link is made, but it is clearly there for some, as numerous boys in Iran 'transition', and even here there is a lot of confusion between sexuality and trans issues.

I also think that there is a world of difference between children transitioning and TRAs imposing men who have simply declared that they are women into female spaces, and insisting on changing the language. Both have problems, but IMO the TRA ones are problems for all of us, whereas the problems for the transitioning children are likely to stay with them.

I would also question the validity of the piece. The study may well have had those findings; but it is the author of the 'news' story who makes the link between the study and the fact that some states are banning the use of puberty blockers and other medication for young children. I have never heard of the author, but if she's the Julie Mazziotta that shows up on LinkedIn, she seems to be an 'expert' in a remarkable number of topics, none of which have involved an education in health-related topics. Her degree was in Politics 🤔

Mollygo Thu 12-May-22 16:27:37

Nannarose

As I am completely anonymous on here, I can tell you that watchful waiting with support has usually been the plan in the UK (well, certainly where I have worked) for a long time.
We used to be especially good with this.

We were also especially good with this. No pressure was put on the child I mentioned. At 6, he was allowed to dress up as he wanted, as were the girls who chose pirate outfits or wore hard hats and ‘tool belts’. We just didn’t decide for them that doing that meant they wanted to actually change gender or that they were gay. It was a part of growing up.

Doodledog Thu 12-May-22 16:33:09

There was a boy in one of my children's class at nursery/primary who always dressed as a princess, had a pink lunchbox and was very meticulous about everything. He was allowed to please himself, as were all of the children, and he has grown up to be a lovely, well-balanced man who happens to be gay.

He will be about 30 now. I wonder what would happen these days if he behaved as he did. Would he be told that he was 'really' a girl, and should adopt female pronouns and change his name?

GagaJo Thu 12-May-22 17:08:54

Riverwalk

The academic paper referred to is entitled

Gender Identity 5 Years After Social Transition

Note the word 'Social'

It's easy to remain socially-transitioned for now - I think further down the line the majority of those young people now self-identifying will socially revert to the sex they were born with.

Wishful thinking.

maddyone Thu 12-May-22 17:35:56

Nannarose

I really can’t comment on how this is handled now, but anyone I dealt with was not just doing the usual dressing up and pretend play that you describe.

The point is that the article mentioned the ages 3 - 12 years. I’ve never taught twelve year olds and therefore have no experience to offer, the age range I taught was from three years to eight years. Regarding the three year olds in the nursery class or four/five year olds in Reception class, these children were able to access a variety of dress up costumes and clothes for both sexes. No comment was ever made to the children whichever dressing up clothing was chosen, but the adults would engage with the children about what they were doing and enter into their make believe play to encourage language development and imagination. This is the point, a three year old may choose to be a female character in a story they have heard regardless of their actual sex. Or the opposite. Given that children make sense of the world through play, how can anyone suggest that a three year old can make a serious decision such as wanting to live as the opposite sex. It’s just not cognitively possible. They cannot possibly commute what it actually means due to their immaturity. I think it’s questionable at twelve, but at three……..

Riverwalk Thu 12-May-22 17:48:09

GagaJo

Riverwalk

The academic paper referred to is entitled

Gender Identity 5 Years After Social Transition

Note the word 'Social'

It's easy to remain socially-transitioned for now - I think further down the line the majority of those young people now self-identifying will socially revert to the sex they were born with.

Wishful thinking.

I don't wish anything regarding these children, other than they be happy - it's just how I think they will develop.

25Avalon Thu 12-May-22 18:00:31

What about the element of brainwashing? “Give me the child of 7 and I will give you the Jesuit man.”
Btw that’s not to say transgender doesn’t exist.

Iam64 Thu 12-May-22 18:04:44

That’s central, isn’t it Avalon. I’agree

Doodledog Thu 12-May-22 18:24:12

. . . how can anyone suggest that a three year old can make a serious decision such as wanting to live as the opposite sex. It’s just not cognitively possible. They cannot possibly commute what it actually means due to their immaturity. I think it’s questionable at twelve, but at three……..

I agree. Three year olds are just learning about the idea of sex. It's not uncommon for a child with a sibling to think that they will become, or used to be, the same sex as that sibling, as though it is a developmental stage. They might know that they are a boy or a girl, but only in the same way that they know their name, or the difference between a dog and a cat - because they have learnt it.