What’s the point? A tale of the youth of today…

Spot on Enid101. Kids haven't changed much - and why the big fuss about peeing up a tree (I'm sure the dogs are allowed to)?

I think the real 'problem' here is a change in attitude as people age, with a tendency to feel vulnerable, be depressed, think there's more danger outside in public places - and that things have really got worse/gone downhill recently. There's no real evidence, though (apart from a lot more littering).

I'll always call out really bad behaviour, with no fear of repercussions (being a retired teacher, it's habit) but I'll do it politely. I feel strong, confident and optimistic, wherever I go.

I was amazed when you said you were 59 I thought you were a lady in your 80 s unfortunately there have always been rogue youngsters depending on their upbringing…. Watch Oliver
We have them here and everywhere but for every badly behaved youngster you get a good kid PLEASE don’t forget that
We have our fair share of rogue youngsters rambling around causing damage and stealing stuff which is entirely down imo to the loss of police patrolling the streets and the shutting of all youth clubs but there are so many good kind kids please don’t get hooked up on the bad apples
I really can’t see your need to tell a boy off for taking a pee behind a tree that’s asking for trouble, have you never had to take a pee outside, at least he’d gone behind a tree and you drew attention to it of course you’d get a mouthful
You sound as if you ve had a sheltered life but you were a nurse so you must have been in contact with all sorts of people some as rough as a badgers bum
Start looking out for good kids they are definitely in the majority and even those that appear to be badly behaved probably have a normal good streak in them
If you talk to people in their 60 s 70 s you will often hear their stories of how awful they were as kids especially boys one at work was recalling the other day some dreadful things he did as a youngster I was quite shocked
Look for the good and you ll find it

Being picky, but the OP said the boy was taking a pee against a tree, not behind it.

That suggests to me he wasn’t bothered about being seen, whereas if he had made a bit of effort to be more discreet, it wouldn’t have been any sort of issue.

If that makes me sound like a fussy old bag, so be it. I hope my 17 year old GS would be a bit more thoughtful if he wanted a wee when out in a park.

I just think you have to be aware of all the good kids as well as the spoilt nasty brats who may grow up to be decent hardworking adults anyway Nearly Every granny on here will have wonderful well behaved grandkids

When you’re on your walks look for good stuff as well as noticing all the bad You are very young to have such a negative viewpoints…. (and to challenge a 16 year old 6ft ‘man child’ was daft of course you’re going to get a nasty reply you embarrassed him) Your husbands right ignore the bad stuff gravitate to the good
Why not arrange a litter pick and invite children to join in obviously your loud mouthed kids won’t but many others will love it

When you can’t change things ignore then (unless it’s something you know you can change) and look for positives comment on it to others ,of course have a grumble about it fine but to make you so down hearted and talk of moving from a lovely place what if the next idyllic village has a few problem kids arrive
And remember you’re attitude will rub of on them so if your critical and down mouthed they ll be the same towards you

I think kids get a really bad press a lot of the time

I was in the national gallery a couple of weeks ago, there were groups of teenagers sketching in a number of the galleries, they were impeccably behaved and made me smile.

Hetty58 Fri 17-Jun-22 01:16:34

Spot on Enid101. Kids haven't changed much - and why the big fuss about peeing up a tree...

I agree that kids haven't changed much, but what has changed is parental attitudes / sense of responsibility and the whole dynamic of discipline in schools, the role of teachers etc.

I'm not about to write a thesis, but somewhere around the 60s 'society' relaxed its approach towards the young. They were encouraged (rightly) to 'express' themselves and we were similarly encouraged to view them as individuals in their own right. This (IMO) completely changed the dynamics. Some, for the better, and others not so much.

An incident highlighting this change has always remained in my mind. On the scale of 'things', it's trivial, but it was a significant example of that change. Sometimes, something seemingly trifling at the time can be the point at which you later realise was the juncture where it should have been taken more seriously because of the 'slippery slope' effect.

My son (aged 12) had his new jacket taken of its peg and thrown into a muddy puddle and then stamped on, at school (there were a group of boys at the school with a reputation for doing this kind of thing). OK, so the jacket was retrieved, washed, and a small tear repaired - no big deal. However, I did complain to a member of staff initially because my son couldn't locate his jacket, but was told by other pupils that it had been taken by 'the gang' and dumped somewhere. Her re-action was, to put it bluntly, mostly indifference... "have you looked in the lost-property box" she said, with a note of mild irritation.

That's the point at which I now believe that low-level anti-social behaviour was tolerated / accepted as inevitable. These were not 'deprived' kids, the school had a good reputation for academic achievement, and it was in a so-called 'desirable' area. And it's quite possible that the members of this 'gang' all grew up to be simply normal citizens.

Vandalism, for the sake of it, has always bothered me. Destroying something for no reason other than a desire to, well, destroy it is, to me, a worrisome trait. But it's now 'low-level crime', and we tolerate it because there are more serious issues at stake. And I was simply grateful that my son was never bullied or picked on by other pupils. A couple of park benches in a new playground here in my small town in The Cotswolds have been destroyed by a group of teenagers and newly-planted flowers dug up and strewn around. If you mention it on our local FB noticeboard, someone will inevitably tell you it's a 'first-world problem' (indeed, it most certainly is a problem in our 'first world') and that there are more worrying things to think about.

Trees are circular, there's a point at which you can often hide behind it to some extent to have a pee. But if you're of a certain mind-set, you won't bother because you won't care. And woe-betide anyone who does!

>>> "taken off its peg <<<

Oh for an edit function. Errors are not always apparent on preview...

I think discreetly taking a quick pee BEHIND the tree, concealed by the bushes is just about passable for a young man. I think being in front of the tree, in daylight with people walking past and school kids coming home across the park, is another thing entirely. I think I man have confused things by describing him as a school boy. These 17yr olds are college kids. Grown ups. All he had to say was “sorry, didn’t think anyone would notice”. The foul language was unnecessary.

And why are young men “allowed”? Imagine if a woman were to pull down her undies and squat, in the park at 3.20 in the afternoon, whilst people were picnicking?

As for those who think I’m just “miserable”, I think that’s part of the answer to it. I’m far from miserable. Perfectly decent, happy person with hopefully, many years ahead of me to enjoy my retirement. Yes, my dogs pee in the park; they’re dogs. That’s what they do.

If it were just a few bad apples, I’d roll my eyes and say “what’s happened to kids/youngsters, these day!” but it’s increasingly common. I don’t feel unsafe because I’m o,d and nervous. I feel unsafe because kids are stabbed and beaten by kids, increasingly often. Silly little arguments that get out of hand and then end in violence and death.

But… what’s the answer? Walk past everything with your head down because youngsters cannot be challenged; about anything?

Different part of town last week, a young man was arguing with a woman who had struggled to get into a parking spot. He drove past and shouted something at her which she ignored. When she was getting her baby trolley out from the boot, he walked past and gave her another mouthful. A woman. With a toddler. Foul language, again. People walked past, heads down. I was waiting for a friend and again, felt anxious because if it’d kicked off, I KNOW it’s in my nature to help. Thankfully, she carried on muttering to himself as he walked off.

Kids, youngsters who’re “just” youngsters grow into adults who harangue women in car parks and worse. But hey, I’m just “old and miserable” and need to lighten up.

And Dickens… that’s the point isn’t it? He might have shimmied behind the tree. He might have apologised and said “I didn’t see you, there, six feet away from me” but, he saw a woman walking alone who was offended and immediately went into entitled “fuck off grandma” mode. It’s a pity I didn’t have my nephew with me. He’s 6ft 6” and although a gentle giant, people are wary of him because of how he looks physically.

From now on, I walk on by.

Of course you’re not being unreasonable to hate anti social behaviour, OP - it can easily escalate and spread if not tackled and make life unpleasant for anyone working or living around it. But tackling it yourself is not the answer - it can just lead to bravado from the people involved and even violence in the worst cases.

Report to 101 or Crimestoppers. The police service has been badly hit by savage cutbacks and the proactive teams once dedicated to stamping out crime before it escalates were the first to go. But neighbourhood police teams still need to know about hotspots, and police or support officers will carry out patrols in them to deter this sort of thing.

And don’t let it depress you. Things haven’t changed that much. The vast majority of our young people are great and the vast majority of young troublemakers will grow up eventually!

I agree with Dickens post.

So many people nowadays are wary of telling off badly behaved young children on their road because they will have rude and defensive parents kno King on their door.

So many teachers are worn down by parents charging in angrily anytime their child is punished for wrong doing; or insisting that there's no way their Sam would dream of punching another child even though there were several witnesses.

That just didn't happen on such a scale years ago.

I'm always puzzled by the apparent need to spoil things. Some examples: in the course of my work I visited a newly built block of flats. It was a nice block. The individual flats I was in were lovely. The occupants were very nice people. However, the common stair and lift was vandalised and scarred with graffiti, the lift had been used as a toilet. Who would think it was acceptable to despoil this area?
Another example is at a local park. A beautiful Japanese garden had been constructed including a lovely oriental pavilion that people loved to sit in. Needless to say it was burnt to the ground.various statues were toppled and smashed.
Who is it who see nice things that others value and feel compelled to spoil them? This goes beyond anti social behaviour and says something about modern culture.

JaneJudge

if you have retired from being a nurse and are having to face this affluent generation of people who get what they want and don;t care about other people's feelings, then no - you are not just too old and are just most probably fed up of people. I fantasise daily about living in rural Wales and not seeing anyone else for months. I wanted to punch all the loud people in waitrose yesterday
oh yar what we having for tea blah blah blah
oh sod off big gob no one cares about your bloody monkfish

?????

Auntie EleanorsCat But… what’s the answer? Walk past everything with your head down because youngsters cannot be challenged; about anything?
Yes walk past everything. An older woman on her own is not in a position to challenge a group of youngsters who might turn violent because who knows what they're like. As we've already said, there are other ways of dealing with them but not by you on your own.

I can remember back 30 years ago when young teenagers rampaging around and creating general mayhem especially on dark evenings was rife. The police knew who the youngsters were but the parents didn’t want to know. So there have always been problems with this age group and dare I say always will be.

As others have said best to avoid talking to them as it achieves nothing but further abuse and the risk of recriminations. It does make your blood boil though, especially when your young relatives don’t behave in this way. Therein lies hope.

So sorry to hear of how you feel about the world today. My advise is to seek out social groups used by your age group and above. You'll find not everyone is bad. Knit and natter, bowling, rambling etc usually it's always older people. Just stay away from parks where youngsters meet up. They have hardly any youth clubs now so parks are the meeting places.

Dickens somewhere around the 60s 'society' relaxed its approach towards the young. They were encouraged (rightly) to 'express' themselves and we were similarly encouraged to view them as individuals in their own right. This (IMO) completely changed the dynamics. Some, for the better, and others not so much.

Spot on, and I can even give you the exact year this started which was 1965, leading into the explosion of 1967 and the cultural revolution. I remember 12 year old girls at school doing things in 1965 we would never have done in 1962.

The children raised during that period then had children who became teenagers in the 1990s and then the problems really started. We had a new generation of youngsters who did not respect adults at all. Since then the cycle has been repeated and things have got steadily worse. Obviously, this does not apply to all youngsters, but certainly enough to make a difference to the society in which we live.

The problem is one of lack of resources. Social workers, police and youth workers have all been cut back savagely by the Tories. Schools are overburdened. Teachers receive little support. This will take time to remedy but it will never happen under Johnson.

Take heart,OP, as I have come across one or two foul, ignorant young people who have made me feel old, dispirited and fearful, but then see happy, pleasant youngsters who are a credit to their families. The horrible people that you have encountered have probably not had much in the way of guidance; this won't help the way you feel, but what lives do they have in front of them? Full of unhappy behaviour and unsatisfactory relationships if that is how they react between themselves as well as to others. It is depressing but the kind of behaviour you describe comes from a very sad place.

10 years ago in Torquay, I was walking along a busy street when I was struck on the face by a fairly heavy object that swung away from me when I looked up to see a drill 'bit' being hauled up on a fishing line onto a balcony of shops by a group of boys who were laughing their heads off. Fortunately I was wearing a wide brimmed hat and wrap around sunglasses so was not injured. I went up the stairs removing my distinctive hat and glasses on the way. Reaching the boys who were still laughing their heads off reliving the moment, I pointed out they could have blinded or disfigured me with their antics and asked them to desist so as not to injure someone else. They hurled abuse and taunted me with their rod. I then took out my mobile and said I would ring the police. They started shouting that I was a paedophile...!! I was particularly shocked that none of the shoppers on the crowded balcony came to my aid. I walked towards the boys saying I would film them and they started to run then shouting abuse. One did stop to apologise, though. They looked young teenagers, 'well spoken' and well dressed... I was left feeling very shaken. I know I put myself at risk but did not want someone else to be injured. I have run a successful youth project in the past and never had to deal with behaviour like this. Is it all the food chemicals in this Ultra Processed Food that is making them like this?

I agree with AuntyEleanorsCat, in that teenagers grow up to be adults that may later exhibit anti-social behaviour. It is also disappointing that people in positions of responsibility, in schools, colleges, even the police at times, dismiss obviously bad behaviour ( such as those cited in many posts above, including bullying and destruction of property) because it is not deemed ' serious' enough, (!!) because they have become indifferent or cynical because it happens so often and isn't properly addressed, or because they are fearful of repercussions from the perpetrator. This further diminishes the importance of what the victim has experienced and shoes no fairness or justice, only cowardice and indifference.
For those who said taking photos/ videos can be dangerous in case the perpetrator becomes aggressive, I agree she should protect herself, however I was pointing out in my previous post that it is not illegal to take pictures in public, despite what some people believe. I also find it quite ironic that the urinating teen would call the lady in question a perv if she took his picture, when he can be accused of deliberately exposing himself in public when he could have been more discreet or at least said "Sorry".

Food chemicals may play a part, I don't know, but there is more to it, I think. It's a combination of reasons.
I agree with Grantanow about the cut backs in resources; this is certainly a part of it.

shows re typo

It's largely 'free floating aggression' - not directed at you personally. When I am gardening in the front (always hyper modestly dressed) the occasional man shouts obscene suggestions - usually from the cover of a vehicle. It has always been the case most aggressive crime is committed by males aged 15 - 20. And most learn better - but I'm sure we all know the odd adult man who ain't to be mixed with.

Perhaps already mentioned but please OP take a phone with you when out alone...

It's not your age, I'm 55 and feel the same way you do. Years ago if a kid through a stone at your window you would of chased them down the road, not now, they just get away with it because you can't go out to them for fear of reprisals. I grew up in an estate that was a really lovely place to live, now it's awful. Drug dealing, under age drinking and anti social behaviour has taken over. I was lucky I could move, others can't.
It's sad, but with no respect for police, not that you can actually any of them about, some of the youth of today get away with so much we would never of done.
I walk my dog alone and in some places I started to feel uncomfortable, so I've stopped walking there. I watched kids breaking their alcohol bottles on the path where they know people walk their dogs, I couldn't say a word.