What’s the point? A tale of the youth of today…

I'm always puzzled by the apparent need to spoil things. Some examples: in the course of my work I visited a newly built block of flats. It was a nice block. The individual flats I was in were lovely. The occupants were very nice people. However, the common stair and lift was vandalised and scarred with graffiti, the lift had been used as a toilet. Who would think it was acceptable to despoil this area?
Another example is at a local park. A beautiful Japanese garden had been constructed including a lovely oriental pavilion that people loved to sit in. Needless to say it was burnt to the ground.various statues were toppled and smashed.
Who is it who see nice things that others value and feel compelled to spoil them? This goes beyond anti social behaviour and says something about modern culture.

I agree with Dickens post.

So many people nowadays are wary of telling off badly behaved young children on their road because they will have rude and defensive parents kno King on their door.

So many teachers are worn down by parents charging in angrily anytime their child is punished for wrong doing; or insisting that there's no way their Sam would dream of punching another child even though there were several witnesses.

That just didn't happen on such a scale years ago.

Of course you’re not being unreasonable to hate anti social behaviour, OP - it can easily escalate and spread if not tackled and make life unpleasant for anyone working or living around it. But tackling it yourself is not the answer - it can just lead to bravado from the people involved and even violence in the worst cases.

Report to 101 or Crimestoppers. The police service has been badly hit by savage cutbacks and the proactive teams once dedicated to stamping out crime before it escalates were the first to go. But neighbourhood police teams still need to know about hotspots, and police or support officers will carry out patrols in them to deter this sort of thing.

And don’t let it depress you. Things haven’t changed that much. The vast majority of our young people are great and the vast majority of young troublemakers will grow up eventually!

I think discreetly taking a quick pee BEHIND the tree, concealed by the bushes is just about passable for a young man. I think being in front of the tree, in daylight with people walking past and school kids coming home across the park, is another thing entirely. I think I man have confused things by describing him as a school boy. These 17yr olds are college kids. Grown ups. All he had to say was “sorry, didn’t think anyone would notice”. The foul language was unnecessary.

And why are young men “allowed”? Imagine if a woman were to pull down her undies and squat, in the park at 3.20 in the afternoon, whilst people were picnicking?

As for those who think I’m just “miserable”, I think that’s part of the answer to it. I’m far from miserable. Perfectly decent, happy person with hopefully, many years ahead of me to enjoy my retirement. Yes, my dogs pee in the park; they’re dogs. That’s what they do.

If it were just a few bad apples, I’d roll my eyes and say “what’s happened to kids/youngsters, these day!” but it’s increasingly common. I don’t feel unsafe because I’m o,d and nervous. I feel unsafe because kids are stabbed and beaten by kids, increasingly often. Silly little arguments that get out of hand and then end in violence and death.

But… what’s the answer? Walk past everything with your head down because youngsters cannot be challenged; about anything?

Different part of town last week, a young man was arguing with a woman who had struggled to get into a parking spot. He drove past and shouted something at her which she ignored. When she was getting her baby trolley out from the boot, he walked past and gave her another mouthful. A woman. With a toddler. Foul language, again. People walked past, heads down. I was waiting for a friend and again, felt anxious because if it’d kicked off, I KNOW it’s in my nature to help. Thankfully, she carried on muttering to himself as he walked off.

Kids, youngsters who’re “just” youngsters grow into adults who harangue women in car parks and worse. But hey, I’m just “old and miserable” and need to lighten up.

And Dickens… that’s the point isn’t it? He might have shimmied behind the tree. He might have apologised and said “I didn’t see you, there, six feet away from me” but, he saw a woman walking alone who was offended and immediately went into entitled “fuck off grandma” mode. It’s a pity I didn’t have my nephew with me. He’s 6ft 6” and although a gentle giant, people are wary of him because of how he looks physically.

From now on, I walk on by.

>>> "taken off its peg <<<

Oh for an edit function. Errors are not always apparent on preview...

Hetty58 Fri 17-Jun-22 01:16:34

Spot on Enid101. Kids haven't changed much - and why the big fuss about peeing up a tree...

I agree that kids haven't changed much, but what has changed is parental attitudes / sense of responsibility and the whole dynamic of discipline in schools, the role of teachers etc.

I'm not about to write a thesis, but somewhere around the 60s 'society' relaxed its approach towards the young. They were encouraged (rightly) to 'express' themselves and we were similarly encouraged to view them as individuals in their own right. This (IMO) completely changed the dynamics. Some, for the better, and others not so much.

An incident highlighting this change has always remained in my mind. On the scale of 'things', it's trivial, but it was a significant example of that change. Sometimes, something seemingly trifling at the time can be the point at which you later realise was the juncture where it should have been taken more seriously because of the 'slippery slope' effect.

My son (aged 12) had his new jacket taken of its peg and thrown into a muddy puddle and then stamped on, at school (there were a group of boys at the school with a reputation for doing this kind of thing). OK, so the jacket was retrieved, washed, and a small tear repaired - no big deal. However, I did complain to a member of staff initially because my son couldn't locate his jacket, but was told by other pupils that it had been taken by 'the gang' and dumped somewhere. Her re-action was, to put it bluntly, mostly indifference... "have you looked in the lost-property box" she said, with a note of mild irritation.

That's the point at which I now believe that low-level anti-social behaviour was tolerated / accepted as inevitable. These were not 'deprived' kids, the school had a good reputation for academic achievement, and it was in a so-called 'desirable' area. And it's quite possible that the members of this 'gang' all grew up to be simply normal citizens.

Vandalism, for the sake of it, has always bothered me. Destroying something for no reason other than a desire to, well, destroy it is, to me, a worrisome trait. But it's now 'low-level crime', and we tolerate it because there are more serious issues at stake. And I was simply grateful that my son was never bullied or picked on by other pupils. A couple of park benches in a new playground here in my small town in The Cotswolds have been destroyed by a group of teenagers and newly-planted flowers dug up and strewn around. If you mention it on our local FB noticeboard, someone will inevitably tell you it's a 'first-world problem' (indeed, it most certainly is a problem in our 'first world') and that there are more worrying things to think about.

Trees are circular, there's a point at which you can often hide behind it to some extent to have a pee. But if you're of a certain mind-set, you won't bother because you won't care. And woe-betide anyone who does!

I was in the national gallery a couple of weeks ago, there were groups of teenagers sketching in a number of the galleries, they were impeccably behaved and made me smile.

I just think you have to be aware of all the good kids as well as the spoilt nasty brats who may grow up to be decent hardworking adults anyway Nearly Every granny on here will have wonderful well behaved grandkids

When you’re on your walks look for good stuff as well as noticing all the bad You are very young to have such a negative viewpoints…. (and to challenge a 16 year old 6ft ‘man child’ was daft of course you’re going to get a nasty reply you embarrassed him) Your husbands right ignore the bad stuff gravitate to the good
Why not arrange a litter pick and invite children to join in obviously your loud mouthed kids won’t but many others will love it

When you can’t change things ignore then (unless it’s something you know you can change) and look for positives comment on it to others ,of course have a grumble about it fine but to make you so down hearted and talk of moving from a lovely place what if the next idyllic village has a few problem kids arrive
And remember you’re attitude will rub of on them so if your critical and down mouthed they ll be the same towards you

I think kids get a really bad press a lot of the time

Being picky, but the OP said the boy was taking a pee against a tree, not behind it.

That suggests to me he wasn’t bothered about being seen, whereas if he had made a bit of effort to be more discreet, it wouldn’t have been any sort of issue.

If that makes me sound like a fussy old bag, so be it. I hope my 17 year old GS would be a bit more thoughtful if he wanted a wee when out in a park.

I was amazed when you said you were 59 I thought you were a lady in your 80 s unfortunately there have always been rogue youngsters depending on their upbringing…. Watch Oliver
We have them here and everywhere but for every badly behaved youngster you get a good kid PLEASE don’t forget that
We have our fair share of rogue youngsters rambling around causing damage and stealing stuff which is entirely down imo to the loss of police patrolling the streets and the shutting of all youth clubs but there are so many good kind kids please don’t get hooked up on the bad apples
I really can’t see your need to tell a boy off for taking a pee behind a tree that’s asking for trouble, have you never had to take a pee outside, at least he’d gone behind a tree and you drew attention to it of course you’d get a mouthful
You sound as if you ve had a sheltered life but you were a nurse so you must have been in contact with all sorts of people some as rough as a badgers bum
Start looking out for good kids they are definitely in the majority and even those that appear to be badly behaved probably have a normal good streak in them
If you talk to people in their 60 s 70 s you will often hear their stories of how awful they were as kids especially boys one at work was recalling the other day some dreadful things he did as a youngster I was quite shocked
Look for the good and you ll find it

Spot on Enid101. Kids haven't changed much - and why the big fuss about peeing up a tree (I'm sure the dogs are allowed to)?

I think the real 'problem' here is a change in attitude as people age, with a tendency to feel vulnerable, be depressed, think there's more danger outside in public places - and that things have really got worse/gone downhill recently. There's no real evidence, though (apart from a lot more littering).

I'll always call out really bad behaviour, with no fear of repercussions (being a retired teacher, it's habit) but I'll do it politely. I feel strong, confident and optimistic, wherever I go.

It extends to road use,too. I tooted someone who came out of a side road without stopping and he got behind me and tailgated me for a long way, very close. I was really scared.

In some ways the world seems to change beyond all recognition and not for the better. I suppose people have felt this as they've aged since time began.

I'm about your age and found the worst thing is feeling powerless against such negative actions. I've found joining litter picking groups and volunteering makes me feel like I'm doing my bit for our world and it's uplifting to mix with other people who want the world to be a better place rather than people who want to spoil it for others.

Don't let the b'stards grind you down. There are lots of good people and the world is still a lovely place.

I’ve no wish to derail this thread into a discussion about pensions. Neither did I intend to be rude to the OP, but I just think teenagers get picked on as a group rather than just accepting that there are some rogue ones.

Oh and I totally disagree with Enid101's post. We have all paid towards pensions for the generation that has gone before us, and we have all benefitted from their livess, actions and wisdom.
Also let us not forget that they are the people now providing child care so that their children can work, or keeping vital Community services going through volunteering.

Why should they put up with rude brattish behaviour from someone now taking their turn at pay taxes to keep society going?

He sounds like an obnoxious brat who knows all about his 'rights' and nothing about consideration and community spirit.

At the end of the day he is the one living the impoverished life. The vast majority of young people would not behave like that. You were unfortunate to meet one of life's sad unfortunate young people. He is not representative. Feel sorry for him and don't let him drag you down xx

I was walking with my daughter a few years ago and challenged thugs wrecking trees. My daughter was mortified she told me I wasn’t so young anymore and can’t run so I should keep quiet. She said she feared for my safety and prefer I just walked on by. I am not the strong woman I once was and have to listen to the advice. Years ago I would challenge anyone being a bloody nuisance.
Not all ( I have to say) but a lot of the youth now take drugs and carry knives. It might go against the grain to standby and say nothing but it’s for the best. Where I live is a mixed housing area with lots of parks I walk my dog in big open spaces where I can see around me.

Ahhh, Enid101. Don’t judge my ability to retire. It has come about through several deaths in the family. I lost both parents within months of each other and my step dad. My retirement is to give me more time to care for my own adult disabled son.

And the boy was around 16/17. Six foot odd. Not a 12yr old.

JaneJudge… that’s me! Hubby and I are planning on a move to a quiet little village where some friends live. It’s just finding the right property. Didn’t want to trouble my husband with what happened as he’s been really poorly but I mentioned it in passing and he’s said, as those above have, DO NOT COMMENT AND KEEP WALKING.

Thanks all.

At 59 you're really too young to have such a pessimistic outlook on life - you're in for a miserable older age if you carry on thinking this way, unless you've just had a bad day!

The schoolboy should have tried to be a bit more discreet and hid behind a bush to urinate but you shouldn't have remonstrated with him - potentially dangerous for a start.

I too hate litter and other anti-social behaviour like dog poo on the pavements and in the park but the vast majority of people, young and old, are not 'rude, obnoxious and disgusting' so I don't feel there's a need to disengage from society.

Don't be old before your time.

What a dreadful experience for you. I think we must remember that not all young people are like this. However there is no doubt that there is a huge decline in standards of behaviour these days. It was one factor in my decision to leave the town I lived in and move to this retirement park in the countryside which is a little bit of heaven with no such behaviour. I wish I knew how to reverse this trend in bad behaviour, and I do think the gradual erosion of all the old disciplines have played a part. I hope you will not encounter these louts again. Take care.

Kids have always used bad language when with their peers and have shown off in the park. Nothing has changed in that respect. Leaving litter is a nuisance but I don’t have an issue with a boy having a quick pee against a tree. He might have been desperate and I think you were mean to call him out on it. Mind your own business and walk on by. As a previous poster has said most teenagers are hard working and polite. In a few years these boys will be contributing towards your pension and certainly won’t be able to retire at 58!

I do understand. You mustn't put yourself at risk, but if no-one ever tells off these teens, then the situation just gets worse.

Years ago you could have written a letter to the editor of the local newspaper, but they do not exist anymore, and if your town has one, then usually it is just the over 50's that read it.

Facebook has become like the newspapers, with community groups and notices. Perhaps you should think about joining.

We have a local group on FB called 'What's up Town Name?", where people will post events and notices, loose dogs, etc. Ours is a small town under 13,000 people. I have seen notices regarding litter, park clean-up events.

A rant, politely worded as your original post, without photos may do some good. You may find you are not the only one feeling unsafe, and it may rouse some action from the community.

hello OP, i agree with others above.
we understand your feelings but urge you, as your number one priority, to protect yourself.
do not challenge loutish behaviour. that is risky. may draw fire on yourself.
just try to avoid them.
could you go out with an other for company/back up. being alone is more vulnerable, potentially.

if you have retired from being a nurse and are having to face this affluent generation of people who get what they want and don;t care about other people's feelings, then no - you are not just too old and are just most probably fed up of people. I fantasise daily about living in rural Wales and not seeing anyone else for months. I wanted to punch all the loud people in waitrose yesterday
oh yar what we having for tea blah blah blah
oh sod off big gob no one cares about your bloody monkfish

I'd say to be very careful taking pictures of aggressive youths or you might get your phone destroyed and your face smashed in. It just depends what sort of kids they are but some are really not nice.