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I refer to three posts in another thread.
The final two posts on page 26 and the first post on page 27 of that thread.
www.gransnet.com/forums/pensions/1309446-Diary-of-a-benefit-claimant?pg=26
www.gransnet.com/forums/pensions/1309446-Diary-of-a-benefit-claimant?pg=27
The first of those posts raises an issue, yet provides no specific suggestion of an alternative.
Nevertheless the issue does concern me. But what can one do when, as far as I know, all supermarkets sell non-vegan food and many companies who produce vegan food also produce non-vegan food too?
Widening the discussion, I have read of vegans who will not sit down to eat at the same table where anybody is eating non-vegan food. So the widespread concept of going to, say, a dinner of a society and choosing the 'vegetarian' (sic) option and being seated at the same table as the m-word eaters does not work.
Yet is this any different from people in a debate refusing to speak from the same platform as someone whose views they oppose? I remember on television news some video of a debate where one then well-known politician leapt from the platform where someone had stated views he regarded as beyond the pale and spoke standing in front of the platform rather than speak from the same platform.
So is this an issue of guilty by association? If so, how can a vegan avoid that while still getting food to eat?
At what distance does someone have responsibility for things, morally rather than legally?
Please note that I am not posting this in the hope of replies in the nature of "Don't worry StarDreamer, you are doing what you can as best you can", I am interested in the ethics of the situation in the world as it is.
I am interested in the views of both vegans and non-vegans. People may, but need not, mention whether they are vegan or not vegan.
I hope that nobody claims this to be a thread about a thread. This thread is not a thread about another thread, it simply references in this thread three posts in that thread that are off-topic for that thread so that the ethics of the situation can be discussed in this thread without disrupting that thread.
Monica. Thank you for your post about land use. and global food production. I wanted to take the time to read the new UK Government Food Strategy published on 13 June 2022 to see what it says about future food security, land use and other matters which may be relevant to the conversation. I may be some time.
Marsha Lady Porter is not the CEO of Tesco, she is the founder's daughter and lives high on the hog on the dividends and payments she gets from her shares in the company.
She was once Chairman of Westminster Council, where her use of undue influence and a straight forward policy manipulation led to ordinary people being evicted from their homes so they could be sold to developers and then, knowingly rehoused in high rise blocks, unoccupied for 10 years because of the extensive use of asbestos in their construction. Nothing was done to the flats to make them safe in any way, for the families and children.
Quite simply, I do not shop in Tesco. There are plenty of alternatives: Sainsburies, Morrisons, ASDA, Aldi, Lidl, Waitrose. Ocado. Amazon etc etc, especiaally if you shop online.
Beans and pulses can provide suffiicient protein and they can be used in so many recipes.
I looked at the 'take the jump'website. It equates eating meat with food waste. Where is the evidence? and replays all the hackneyed 'facts' about meat production and the environment, which I thought I had scotched several posts up.
It is possible to eat meat that is environmentally neutral. and which does not add to greenhouse emissions.
That is just from my gp, not a dietician (which I should have been referred to, rumour has it)
No, I haven't been given an amount, but told to eat red meat and fish (neither of which I like)
MissAdventure
I've been told to eat a protein rich diet, actually.
Have you been told how much protein please?
Have you been advised of which foods to have to get the protein?
Exactly, Mollygo. That's all I was seeking to do here. Highlighting that Tesco have been the one supermarket chain not to respond to the OpenCages investigations and the appalling cruelties that were revealed. Other supermarket chains who were also found wanting in their investigations did clean up their act and improved conditions for the animals. I'm very glad to read that others feel similarly.
I agree, Marsha. I don't know about the geographical coverage of online supermarkets, whether the big names cover all areas. Choice may be limited but there many be the option of small retailers, Abel &Cole, OddBox for example, who sell and deliver lovely fruits and veg boxes. There may be farm shops that deliver too.
You've reminded me of a book I listened to many years ago, by Dr Andrew Weil, an American doctor who specialises in healthy eating and healthy ageing. The blurb from his book: The Beginner's Guide to Health Eating says:
"Join Dr. Weil as he helps identify the diet that's best for you, and sets the record straight about fats, carbohydrates, protein, and calories. With him, you will learn how to cook and eat out wisely, explore the secrets of the Japanese and Mediterranean diets, and discover why "experimentation" is central to a healthy diet.” (He is a big mushroom fan so be careful what you experiment with!)
Those goals may be a little more challenging to achieve in a vegan diet. The question often asked is where do you get your protein but there are plenty of plant-based sources. You’re right. Plant-based protein can be expensive, nuts, for example but foods such as grains and seeds, beans and chick peas, lentils and potatoes are not so.
When you want to build a healthy body, you have to get the right amount of protein. Protein is one of the most essential components of muscle development, bone density, muscle mass and lean tissue — and that's just the beginning. In truth, protein is necessary for all your body's physiological functions.
Marsha
It’s protein that’s expensive - eat less of that and fill up with fresh organic vegetables and fruits
People need protein.
Protein, from soya drink and rice, forms an important part of my diet.
I've been told to eat a protein rich diet, actually.
I think you're onto something there.
It’s protein that’s expensive - eat less of that and fill up with fresh organic vegetables and fruits
And so we all troop back to Tesco…….
MerylStreep
MissAdventure
It’s not cheap being ethical ?
I think it was Delia Smith who said that there is a place for cheap chickens in cookery, because that is all some can afford.
£153 for 25 kg of Odourless Organic Coconut Oil!
MissAdventure
It’s not cheap being ethical ?
£10 for a bag of almonds.
Hello
Does anyone know the situation ethics wise with Morrisons and Ocado? Thank you
Their service is brilliant; much better than Tesco (and they use bags! )
Lidl are rated more highly than Waitrose, I think, in animal welfare status, but they don't deliver.
Waitrose is out of a lot of people's means.
Also, I assume, people are aware of animal products used to produce alcohol?
I haven't seen that mentioned much on here, and don't know which shops are more ethical in that respect.
The thing is, what is the alternative?
Plenty of alternatives - if home delivery is essential because of a physical disability, say, then one could choose a supermarket with better credentials - Waitrose? Or, if one lived on one’s own and therefore not buying a lot, one could order from independent (wholefood?) stores online / delivered if necessary.
Personally I think buying and eating food, or more ideally, growing and eating food, should be a pleasure that affects one’s physical and mental health. The visual pleasure of a colourful meal can boost one.
I don’t shop at Tesco and haven’t for some years for several reasons, some off which are mentioned on here. Despite the issues raised, many people will still shop at Tesco and have their own reasons for doing so. The best thing that can happen is that issues are highlighted so that Tesco’s practices can be altered.
The thing is, what is the alternative?
I have decided to continue to have my groceries delivered by Tesco, notwithstanding the claim made by KatieKnitsSocks. about what I am purported according to the opinion of KatieKnitsSocks to be supporting in so doing.
I have found the service good.
I have put forward, in this thread, and by reporting the post to GNHQ, the idea of the Gransnet Chief Executive having an interview with the Tesco Chief Executive and publishing the video of the interview.
I don't know if anyone has supported that suggestion by reporting the post to GNHQ - nobody has stated so as I write this post, but maybe some people have done reported it.
Yet maybe not.
If one feels that the morals of the CEO etc of Tesco are not up to scratch, is it incumbent on oneself to stop shopping there - rather than continuing to buy their goods in the full knowledge of their poor practices?
MOnica
That’s when we stopped shopping at Tesco. Horrible woman.
As one of my daughters is the payroll manager at a fruit farm in Kent I’m very aware of how they screw their suppliers into the ground.
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