Another bastion bites the dust?

StarDreamer

Casdon

StarDreamer

Surely what I post cannot be mansplaining because there is no intention on my part to treat anyone with disdain.

Isn’t the point about mansplaining that it’s innate, you don’t have to intend to do it to do it anyway?

I don't know.

When you write "innate" are you meaning as in by having a Y chromosome or do you mean social conditionng?

For example, I went to coeducational schools, both primary and secondary.

If some books had to be carried anywhere, the boys had to do it, not the girls.

When it came to getting the crates of milk, the boys had to do it, not the girls.

Girls did not do cross country running.

Et cetera, et cetera.

So, that was the way it was, Nobody questioned it. Nobody said "Why don't the girls take a turn getting the milk?" I suppose it could be said that we were conditioned that girls were weaker and could not do physical things.

Actually, just thought. Can someone who went to an all girls secondary school say who got the crates of milk and so on please?

Is it the case that girls who went to coeducational schools were conditioned by the system to regard themselves as weak and helpless?

Yes that is probably how it was , but no longer! Especially in primary schools.
Girls do cross country, learn cricket and football and play tag rugby.

StarDreamer

I know that with hindsight it is obvious, but it only occurred to me recently that as there were an equal number of boys and girls in the cohorts, that the 11+ was really two contests, one of girls and one of boys, even in a coeducational area. So some girls might have not got to grammar school even if they got a better mark in the 11+ exam than some boys who did go to grammar school.

It wasn't like that. Many grammar schools were originally set up as charitable foundations - for boys. Historically, there were more places for boys than girls, so in some areas boys got into grammar school with lower marks than girls.

But if men are the weaker sex, surely they need more love and attention nowadays.

Well my Dearest departed husband RIP was different ,, I was his equal and I was treated with the most respect any women could wish for ...A good part of our life we worked together too under stressful conditions. He was a complete soul mate and friend and he understood my fears and helped me over come them .. And he was a Greek Cypriot ....

Knittingnovice many subjects have thankfully long since dropped coursework (including Maths and English). Also, English is from memory with the open book idea also dropped since 2017 (or earlier?).

My little DS was ceaselessly bullied and physically attacked by a horrid little female brat at junior school , when I matched into headmaster's office and told him in no uncertain terms that his uncle a police sergeant would be visiting if they didn't sort this out, he sniggeres and thought it "funny" that DS "let" a girl bully HIM!!!! I flipped it to him and asked if it would also be "funny" if a boy pinched scratched punched and tore the shirt then tried to strangle a girl?!?! Case rested and I spent next 20 minutes educating'archie' on balance fairness andcommon decency. Needless to say he shrank almost under his desk by the time I sauntered out!

I know that with hindsight it is obvious, but it only occurred to me recently that as there were an equal number of boys and girls in the cohorts, that the 11+ was really two contests, one of girls and one of boys, even in a coeducational area. So some girls might have not got to grammar school even if they got a better mark in the 11+ exam than some boys who did go to grammar school.

StarDreamer

Casdon

StarDreamer

Surely what I post cannot be mansplaining because there is no intention on my part to treat anyone with disdain.

Isn’t the point about mansplaining that it’s innate, you don’t have to intend to do it to do it anyway?

I don't know.

When you write "innate" are you meaning as in by having a Y chromosome or do you mean social conditionng?

For example, I went to coeducational schools, both primary and secondary.

If some books had to be carried anywhere, the boys had to do it, not the girls.

When it came to getting the crates of milk, the boys had to do it, not the girls.

Girls did not do cross country running.

Et cetera, et cetera.

So, that was the way it was, Nobody questioned it. Nobody said "Why don't the girls take a turn getting the milk?" I suppose it could be said that we were conditioned that girls were weaker and could not do physical things.

Actually, just thought. Can someone who went to an all girls secondary school say who got the crates of milk and so on please?

Is it the case that girls who went to coeducational schools were conditioned by the system to regard themselves as weak and helpless?

I mean social conditioning. Some men don’t realise that the way they explain things to women is demeaning the woman’s intelligence. It’s innate because it’s part of their understanding of how the world works and their place within it.

Kate1949

I feel rather sorry for men these days. My lovely nephew was told by a female colleague during a discussion 'As a white heterosexual male, your opinion is irrelevant.'

Classic example of female making totally wrong assumption that "equality" with men means being just as biased, bullying uncaring and threatening, also just as drunk, vulgar rude aggressive I could go on! Women need to rethink equality, it's about same chances opportunities respect and accomodation of the differences too. Not ALL men are oiks! Wakey wakey ladies, were better than the lowest common denominator, men have lots to share with us as we with them, we exist together I harmony not competing for the rotter of the year award!!

Coursework/controlled assessment benefits boys too. There is still a higher percentage of boys with special needs e.g. ADHD, ASD, Dyslexia.

It is not just in schools we are conditioned to think we are the weak ones that need looking after. Just take a man is expected to give up their seat to a woman rather than everyone should give up their seat so someone who needs it more than they do.

Well said - the Middle East need centuries to catch up though. Women need to stand up for one another / there is a special place in hell for those women who don’t support other women

Casdon

StarDreamer

Surely what I post cannot be mansplaining because there is no intention on my part to treat anyone with disdain.

Isn’t the point about mansplaining that it’s innate, you don’t have to intend to do it to do it anyway?

I don't know.

When you write "innate" are you meaning as in by having a Y chromosome or do you mean social conditionng?

For example, I went to coeducational schools, both primary and secondary.

If some books had to be carried anywhere, the boys had to do it, not the girls.

When it came to getting the crates of milk, the boys had to do it, not the girls.

Girls did not do cross country running.

Et cetera, et cetera.

So, that was the way it was, Nobody questioned it. Nobody said "Why don't the girls take a turn getting the milk?" I suppose it could be said that we were conditioned that girls were weaker and could not do physical things.

Actually, just thought. Can someone who went to an all girls secondary school say who got the crates of milk and so on please?

Is it the case that girls who went to coeducational schools were conditioned by the system to regard themselves as weak and helpless?

''My DiL is a Veterinary Surgeon, graduated 4 years ago and around 75% of her cohort then were female.
It's even higher now.''

Talking to a local vet who had turned up to give routine care to the local riding stable's horses, she amazed me by saying that she wished she had gone into teaching instead as so many of her friends had.

They were paid better AND it was only by being the pricipal in such a business that vets earned so much

Women in sport, government, on TV hosting documentaries about women's health, lots of stuff about menopause, gender, safety, inappropriate behaviour towards men and from men etc I get the feeling it is all just an unexplored area and once it peeks something else will take over. For a while we were saturated with stuff about colonialism, people of colour, ethnicity and who our ancestors were and what they did. That seems to have quietened in favour of women at the moment.

If segregation was done away with where it is not neccerssary and irrelevent than maybe segregation where it is neccerssary such as toilets and changing rooms would be treated with more respect.

If only we could get away from putting people into categories or boxes, and just saw each other as PEOPLE, and in work situations, employed according to ability or qualification, rather than having to confirm to quotas or tick boxes.

Unfortunately, there are cultures where women are seen as inferior, possessions, something of lesser consequence than men so I'm afraid this sort of division will never go away.

It's very sad what's happening to the world now everyone is being put onto boxes why can't people just be people and judged accordingly not what sex they are or what colour they are. I fear for my grandchildren it's a very sad depressing world

Well said Jackiest! After all, we are all people. Let’s treat all people well. Nuff said.

biglouis - could it not be equally valid that he sends those instructions to all his Sellers - both male and female - as he has had a bad experience in the past. Unless you have other information you have not disclosed?

Kate1949

I feel rather sorry for men these days. My lovely nephew was told by a female colleague during a discussion 'As a white heterosexual male, your opinion is irrelevant.'

That is a disgrace and exactly the kind of thing that bothers me. Women just want equality, nobody is superior.

I agree that women do seem to be taking over and men are feeling threatened. However the crowing from some women on tv interviews is not attractive. In some ways I feel sorry for the men, most if them are supportive and happy to cheer on the women so let’s give them some slack.

That's the difference between a team sport and an individual sport I would have thought, many tennis players signal in some way to their coach and family when they win.

I grew up in a male dominant family eg professional footballer, high end cars, foreign holidays by the males, even the food we ate was geared towards physical fitness need for adult males. I have glimpsed a little if women's football and was so disappointed to see the running up to players and cuddling, the sliding on knees (whatever that is called) whenever a player has scored, for basically doing their job. How many other sports do we see this seeking praise, "aren't I great" behaviour. Can't see a Wimbledon winner running about waving arms, cuddling whoever on a win and let's be honest there must be a lot more adrenalin pulsing away in an indivual who has got there on their own than one in a team to warrant such displays. To me, females can be as good, even better than males but do we need to copy their behaviour to show we are.

Sheila11

I blame us mums!
Little girls are independent. ‘I’ll do it up, I’ll put my coat on’ I’ll help’ etc.
Boys sit back and put a foot up to have their shoes/socks put on while reading or on a games console. They leave their dirty dishes/washing etc for someone else to pick up, and because were in a hurry, we found it!
We need to change this behaviour from the outset ladies!

I think you might have something there. Never having boys myself I can see DD's different attitude toward their different-sex children.
I was an Infants teacher for many years and often found the above true most of the boys lined up to have their coats fastened and scarves put on. They wore their gloves or mittens on strings so they would not lose them. Getting dressed after a P.E lesson was a marathon of misplaced shoes,socks and ties etc. Even though they had been given the instructions whilst undressing to put all their clothes they took off on their own chair. Some could not even recognise their own name.
If we look closely we can all recognise the signs in DH's my DD's used to call their father "Where's my?"