Archie Battersbee

You misunderstand me Bluebelle, I am not saying that the incident should not be investigated, nor am I saying that action should not be taken. where appropriate. I just think, at the moment, what happened should not be published online because of the danger of other young people trying to do whatever he was doing when this tragic episode happens.

It is like when there are terrorist trials and some details of how someone got round security controls or made the inflammable liquid or explosive they used is not published because of the danger of someone making the same material. It doesn't stop the security forces taking action to make it more difficult to obtain certain raw materieals, or circumvent the controls, just that what is being done is not published.

JaneJudge wanting to know what caused this event is not the same as judging what happened or the person involved. It is natural to want to know, many of us have similarly aged grandsons. However, I can see why, in this case, details are not being published.

www.judiciary.uk/judgments/barts-health-nhs-trust-v-dance-battersbee/

You may find this interesting (long read!)

ixion thank you. I have read it.

ixion

www.judiciary.uk/judgments/barts-health-nhs-trust-v-dance-battersbee/

You may find this interesting (long read!)

A horrifying and very compassionate read.

I too have read it and as Ailidh says a horrifying and very compassionate read. My goodness, the depth of involvement for all concerned.

I too have read it and it does confirm what many of us have understood from what has been published: that this child has already died. All the evidence makes it clear.

I found one point his parents made symptomatic of the difficulty they are having accepting what has happened to their child. His mother said that they had been approached by the hospital to discuss organ donation two days after the accident and that was 'too soon'.

As I have mentioned, my sister died after desperate attempts, including 2 operations to save her life, after she suffered severe head injuries. In her case the doctors discussed organ donation, in well under 2 days. If organs are to be transplanted they need to be 'fresh'. I am sorry if that term upsets some people. They wanted to give my parents as much time as possible to think about it, before decision point was reached - and they knew this could occur quickly. She was kept on life support for two days between death and the removal of the organs. This is standard practice. This is was what the doctors did with Archie's parents.

Tragically, they are unable to accept the reality of the tragedy that has happened and this denial of reality is going to make a bad situation far worse.

There can now be no question of Archie's organs being used for transplant. They will no longer be usable. We found knowing my sister gave life two three others through her death sustained us through those first dreadful months after her death.

I’ve just read it all, thank you ixion
Harrowing.

M0nica, you are so brave in sharing your sad experience with your sister. I'm sure others, like me, must have found your words very moving and also helpful in trying to understand what is going on with this poor boy and his family.

Thank you.

Oh my goodness, I’ve just read it all. Thank you ixion so very sad. The mother needs to let him go. The costs involved in all of this and the effect it must of had on all the nursing staff will have taken its toll on them.
Whilst I totally get that his family wanted to give Archie every chance, you cannot (when reading the report) deny that the Trust have gone over and above in their treatment of Archie. The evidence and tests carried out and the results are so harrowing to read ?

M0nica hugs and thank you for sharing ? x

Thank you MOnica for being so generous in sharing this part of your life. X

Just read the judgment and it is such a pity that the initial brain stem death confirmation was refused. It appears to have resulted in so many complications.
The parents’ natural wish for the invasive and artificial life support to continue is completely understandable, but as the judgment states, the common sense shown by M0nicas family, even in their hour of grief, was sadly lacking here.
The christian argument seems to me to be clutching at straws.
It appears Archie’s mother and her partner have not bothered to marry, which morally I have no problem with, but if espousing christianity, seems hypocritical.

I meant to say that as the judgment states, emotions cloud the family’s decisions.

Having read the judgement there is really no arguing with it. Archie’s poor mother cannot accept the truth, and who could, having been in the house and then finding the child? I would struggle and I like to think I am reasonably rational. Still think her comments about the hospital are unjustified and unfair.

I have just read the whole judgement and it is clear that he has been dead since very shortly after the incident.
It is also clear that his mothers truth of the situation is very far from the reality.
He needs to be let go peacably and that does not include transferring him to a hospice.

I'm sorry about your sister Monica, you are very brave sharing that and I completely understand how your family got comfort from your sisters organs being donated to others

I apologise if I have upset anyone. I just don't know how I'd behave myself and I hope to never find out but I know most people don't act in an acceptable way when going through trauma such as this and I can't imagine how much worse that is when it is played out in the media. I feel the media intrusion is actually unethical fwiw

My DH had a 20 year “reprieve, because of a donated organ and all our family have ever since encouraged people to carry donor cards.
It was not all plain sailing though, we nearly lost him 4 weeks in because the donated liver carried a virus which then ripped through him because he was on massive immune suppressant anti rejection drugs. During that time in the relatives’ room off ICU I made the acquaintance of a family whose adult daughter had had a brain haemorrhage. Although she carried a donor card her family still had to agree and I could see the heartbreak they were going through.
What was wonderful was that they said it was meeting our 3 daughters and me and seeing how an organ donation saved not only a patient but a whole family, that finally convinced them it was worth while.
Poor, poor Archie’s parents, I think they must let him go peacefully, they have fought a good fight but letting him slip away in the more “homely” surroundings of a hospice rather than the clinical atmosphere of ICU which will carry such awful memories for them, is the only way forward. if it was my 12 year old grandson - well I cannot imagine the grief, but hanging on when all hope is gone would ultimately destroy the family even more surely.

There can now be no question of Archie's organs being used for transplant. They will no longer be usable. We found knowing my sister gave life two three others through her death sustained us through those first dreadful months after her death.

I didn't realise that Archie's organs could not be used because it is now too late.

Thank you for sharing your sister's story, M0nica and I, too, believe that it could bring comfort knowing that others might be given a chance of life through a loved one's organ donation.

Wondered how long - ‘are not married but espousing Christianity seems hypocritical’ .

Callistemon, sorry to be so brutal, but parts of the boy’s brain are leaking into his spine.
The chance of organ donation are long gone.

I do wonder why the media are misrepresenting so much of this case.
Are the CLC really that powerful, loaded and litigious?-

It is a dreadful situation fir all concerned, especially the mother but as fir the media involvement that was because the she sought it out in the hope presumably of publicity. I read the judges report and their legal team are working pro bono.
The son of a friend of dd died in a similar way a couple of years ago. It was horrendous. He was 10.

i see nothing hypocritical in a non-married couple espousing christianity.
people's beliefs are personal to them.
marriage may be seen as a cultural norm, or for financial/legal advantage.
is the suggestion that non-married couples are not allowed to espouse christianity.

Surely you believe God created the child or you don't, what has marriage got to do with anything

Thank you MOnica beyond tough.

Archie’s parents only became Christian due to the CLC’s involvement.
They have history for this.
The CLC’s agenda is that of anti abortion. The are the Far Right of the US.
They want to prove in law that heartbeat equals life.
Ergo: no abortion.

Rees Mogg and Dorries also support this.

Hollie Dance is an extremely vulnerable and manipulative - able person.