Archie Battersbee

Sorry - I meant that Dance is easily manipulated

JaneJudge

Surely you believe God created the child or you don't, what has marriage got to do with anything

Your God decided it was time for Archie to die- and man decided to fight this. Where does Christianity begin and end here?

I'm not religious

Me neither- but both the Catholic Church, CofE and other Christian faiths have clear views on the subject of marriage.

even from a pro life/anti abortion stance?

it is all very hypocritical isn't it?

I agree Fanny, she is easily manipulated - I think most people are going through trauma.

I understand how the family would like Archie to die in peaceful surroundings of a hospice as opposed to the noise and stressful environment of an ITU.But surely when the ventilator is turned off there will only be a short time maybe minutes before his heart stops.
So will they continue artificial ventilation on route to the hospice and are the hospice staff trained to look after him on a ventilator ?
Such a sad situation for all involved.

I think mum is feeling guilty at not knowing what her son was up to by, probably, leaving him to his own devices on the internet. Now she is lashing out and using that to blame everyone else. I feel very sorry for her and wish she had the mental strength to let him go in peace

I am a catholic and I think christianity and religion has absolutely nothing to do with this case.

The CLC is a right wing political group with a clear agenda and uses religion as a cloak of respectability and to justify its policies

This case is a perfectly straight forward medical case. Brain stem death is death. You can dicker round the edge with extra little qualifications and tests, but essentially brain stem death is death. After that, although the deceased may be on life support, the body starts to deteriorate. In this country before organs can be removed from a body for transplant, the person is left on life support for two days, to ensure no mistake has been made in the diagnosis and it is repeated.

The organs then must be removed as soon as possible and transplanted, otherwise they deteriorate and decay. This would not happen if the deceased was still alive and had self sustaining body systems.

In this case this child is dead and has been since not long after the tragic incident that caused his death. When people talk of him having a natural death, he has had that. None of his body systems are self activating. We are not going to see his body naturally shut down sytem by system. It will be a question of internal decay. When his lungs are too decayed to respond to air being pumped into them, heart is beyond beating no matter the external stimulus and the same with other body systems.

Throughout time there have beens stories of people unable to come to terms with the loss of someone dear them. people who have carried mummified bodies of dear ones round with them, or slept beside them. What we get now is parents unable to come to terms with the death or inevitable death of a child. It is absolutely understandable and one can feel only copassion for these families. But religion has got nothing to do with it.

nadateturbe

I feel the same as Grandma70s. I couldn't give up. It's just heartbreaking.
We do need much more control of Internet.

There’s no evidence this was to do with an internet challenge. Unfortunately he was depressed & had attempted to kill himself before. It’s very sad.

MOnica thank you for expressing grief can cause what can seem strange behaviour. My darling daughter died over 4 years
ago, was cremated, her ashes will not be interred until I am ,
I don’t want her to be alone, irrational yes.

Feel so desperately sorry for the family & completely understand how they feel.

Anniebach

MOnica thank you for expressing grief can cause what can seem strange behaviour. My darling daughter died over 4 years
ago, was cremated, her ashes will not be interred until I am ,
I don’t want her to be alone, irrational yes.

No. Not irrational Annie. Not at all

“They want to prove that heartbeat equals life”

Anyone on full life support has no heartbeat. The heart is artificially stimulated by electric shocks or a bi pass machine is used to pump oxygen around the body.
A ventilator is used to force air into the lungs.
A dialysis machine removes impurities from the blood.
Another machine pumps nutrition and hydration into the body.
Yet another vacuums waste out.

I cannot see how he can be taken to a hospice with the machinery he needs. These machines are big and complex. How can he be transported with them?
His heart cannot beat on its own. His lungs cannot fill.

When the machine is removed the heart ceases immediately. And yet people don’t seem to understand that. They think there will be some length of interval when he will die peacefully in a hospice.

Like MOnica I have experienced this in my own family, not once but twice.

Anniebach

MOnica thank you for expressing grief can cause what can seem strange behaviour. My darling daughter died over 4 years
ago, was cremated, her ashes will not be interred until I am ,
I don’t want her to be alone, irrational yes.

It’s not irrational, Annie,. DD is buried in a woodland cemetery and DH’s ashes are interred alongside. He died just under two years after her and it gives me great comfort knowing they are together.

I will join them when my time comes.

Anniebach I remember the sad death of your daughter and can understand both your grief and how you feel about her ashes. But you have always accepted that she has died.

The sadness we have here is people who cannot accept that someone has died as the result of an injury but nurture the illusion that life is still there and that those who wish to help them are in fact trying to kill the person they tried so hard to save.

Anniebach

MOnica thank you for expressing grief can cause what can seem strange behaviour. My darling daughter died over 4 years
ago, was cremated, her ashes will not be interred until I am ,
I don’t want her to be alone, irrational yes.

Not at all irrational, Anniebach

karmalady

I think mum is feeling guilty at not knowing what her son was up to by, probably, leaving him to his own devices on the internet. Now she is lashing out and using that to blame everyone else. I feel very sorry for her and wish she had the mental strength to let him go in peace

How could Archie’s mum monitor his phone 24hrs a day.
He had his phone with him all day in school.
I know this to be a fact as both my grandchildren go to the same school and my granddaughter shared some lessons with Archie.

I don't think mum is feeling guilty. She doesn't want to let her child go, clinging onto him till the end which she is in denial about.

Sadly a heartbeat doesn't mean life. Heart cells will beat in a petri dish and when DH died I was surprised how long his heart continued beating after he took his last breath.

Having read the details I think that if (and it's a big if) Archie isn't dead already his condition is certainly not survivable. The idea of moving him seems fraught with difficulty, and who would look after him? Hospice staff will not be skilled ICU nurses.

Anniebach. I believe many of us remember your daughter’s death, her struggles and the love you shared. Of course you don’t want her to be alive, nothing irrational in your feelings.

MOnica, thank you for posting about your families experience when your sister was fatally injured. I found your views on religion and the end of life experience of your sister and this boy moving and calmly instructive

Blue25 where do you get your information that he was depressed and had tried suicide before? Or is this just supposition
Anniebach I remember as if it was yesterday I totally understand how you feel a hug goes to you x

For Anniebach [hugs] x

Can't believe it's been four years Anniebach

Archie's family have no thought for the implications of their demands he is moved to a Hospice, even assuming one will be willing to take him, and he is able to "survive" the transfer. Other patients' privacy and comfort will be impacted. To be blunt, this isn't the only family dealing with tragedy, and no family trumps another in their rights. I feel sorrow for what has happened to this family, but frankly, I am sickened by their unrealistic demands and the emotive and vile accusations made against the professional and caring medical staff. I don't know how I would behave in these tragic circumstances, but I hope that it would be with dignity and respect as shown by the brave GN members who have shared their own tragedies.

? HPQ.