Archie Battersbee

Deedaa

I agree with MOnica when you read the details it is clear that Archie was never going to survive. There was never going to be a miracle recovery or a new therapy that would repair the damage done to his brain. Unfortunately his mother does seem to have been influenced by a pro life church who have encouraged unrealistic hopes . If she had listened to the doctors who had been liaising with specialists all over the country I think the whole thing could have been handled in a way that would have been better for her and poor Archie.

Yes, MOnica has been the voice of reason and calm.

I have just come off Facebook, having read some of the comments under the latest news, I've been depressed at the sheer ignorance of some of the posters, and at the vitriol being spouted against those medical professionals who have been treating and looking after Archie.

I had to come back here and read GNs' more temperate observations to regain my equilibrium.

Deeda, that’s the thing, if Archie’s mum had been able to listen and hear what the medical team were saying, it could have all been calmer

I agree with MOnica when you read the details it is clear that Archie was never going to survive. There was never going to be a miracle recovery or a new therapy that would repair the damage done to his brain. Unfortunately his mother does seem to have been influenced by a pro life church who have encouraged unrealistic hopes . If she had listened to the doctors who had been liaising with specialists all over the country I think the whole thing could have been handled in a way that would have been better for her and poor Archie.

Thank you for your support. I always try to base anything I post on any thread, but, especially one like this, on soundly based facts, even though it means peppering my posts with links, which it is suggested elsewhere that many people do not trust or click on.

But this case has come to its inevitable end and all we can do now is sympathise with the deep grief of his family at the loss of a much beloved child and hope they get the help and support they will so surely need.

This case has come close for more than one reason. I have a 12 year old grandson with very fair hair and deep grey eyes, just like Archie Battersbee.

You can only mediate with willing parties
Ixion, I agree about the need for all involved to be offered therapeutic support

In the judge’s comments mediation was mentioned, though I seem to recall it was said that the family declined? Seems to me it would have been better than going through the legal route, and would not have prolonged this sorry story.

GrannyGravy13

I do hope his school year group will have access to counselling when they return in September.

Ditto his clinical team.
Bad enough dealing with a dying child, yet alone facing the observations, negativity and ill-informed comments by his family throughout

Thanks to MOnica for your excellent contributions based on your family experience but also on the Judgements .

Dickens is absolutely correct. MOnica isn’t basing ‘her take’ only on personal experience but on the Judgements in this tragic case.
Rip Archie

I do hope his school year group will have access to counselling when they return in September.

As I said earlier on this thread:
RIP Archie and may his family find peace. God bless them all.

I just feel it’s all so sad and unnecessary, at the end of the day IF he had recovered what state would he be in, especially after lacking oxygen to the brain before he was rescued. And just how much. Has this cost the already struggling NHS. His mother is just never going to accept his death

Joane123

That is your understanding and take on the situation Monica. Why is your explanation as how you see it correct?
You don't know the family or the circumstances, you read what we read, and form your opinion - it doesn't mean your opinion is the right one at all.

If you read the document from the High Court of Justice Family Division (Barts Health NHS Trust -v- Dance & Battersbee) which is made public on the Courts and Tribunals Judiciary website, you will probably realise that MOnica's "understanding and take" on the this tragic case is based on sobering evidence and facts which have largely been missing from the sensational media reporting that we have all been reading.

It is a very long read, but worth the time if you want to understand the basis for the decisions taken by the medical profession and why the various Courts rejected Archie's mother's appeals. It will also (unlike the media) give an insight into the campaign group acting for her.

Young Archie's death, the grief of his mother (and father - from whom we have heard little) is tragic enough, but the way the media has sensationalised it has done a lot of damage to Barts in particular, and the medical profession in general - the last thing they need after the pandemic which also encouraged certain individuals to issue threats, and in some cases physically harass, those working for the NHS.

Everyone has the right to question a consultant's / specialist's / doctor's judgment, they are not infallible, but it should and needs to be done in a calm and rational environment, away from the glare of the media whose hyperbolising has the effect of enraging some over-emotional, grudge-bearing, individuals - completely unconnected with the family or the event - and encouraging them to exploit the tragedy for their own ends.

Archie - dear, young, innocent, boy, RIP.

The other sad deplorable thing is that the family and the hospital have received disgusting messages from trolls. Fortunately there are more good ones to balance it out. Why do some people feel the need to do this? Rightly or wrongly both parties wanted what they considered was best for Archie although they didn’t agree what that best was.

I hope there are not protracted enquiries as it will do no one any good.

I think as nobody knows beside the parents and the group/organisation that has been funding the multiple appeals that this group may have an underlying agenda and has been exploiting the parents to its own end.

MayBee70

I’m sorry but I don’t understand why his family have just been on national television discussing his death in graphic detail.

I don’t understand that at all. If my son had just died a couple of hours before I’d want to be away from any publicity, to grieve in peace. The last thing I’d want is a camera in my face. It’s all quite strange.

Hear, hear MOnica ???

I agree MayBee
The whole situation has been awful.
But if you dare to criticise the parents…
It just makes me feel so sorry for the countless parents and families who have dealt with similar circumstances.
Hearing about this constantly must be awful.
Children die all the the time. Humans die all the time.

I’m sorry but I don’t understand why his family have just been on national television discussing his death in graphic detail.

Monica has summed up the situation correctly. The hospital staff did their best for Archie right until the end. His parents fought for him but in reality it was always futile because Archie was already dead. I hope they can grieve in peace now and the media leave them alone.

MOnica has contributed excellent posts about this sad case.

Sadly there are people who refuse to understand. Why? I've no idea.

After the criticism the NHS has had to put up with I'm sure that they would have preferred Archie to go to a hospice. It's been an incredibly difficult time for the staff. Even those on the phones have had to deal with toxic calls from supporters of this family.

The Hospital Trust did what was best for Archie.

I m so sorry to hear your story Avalon that must have been horrendous for you and I can see why your thoughts would be coloured I think it was made clear from what I ve read on here in posted links that the machinery and staff needed to journey that little boy from hospital to a hospice was impossible to manage
It’s a terrible situation for everyone and the only one who wouldn’t know anything about all these courts cases and discussions was Archie (thankfully)
I m thankful it’s over and truly from the moment it happened in April to this today he has known nothing thank goodness

Maybe no one will ever really know what went on in his head before he put a ligature around his neck on the landing and no one will ever really know why unless the police or some clever person can decipher the usage of his phone just prior to his death on April 7th

Exactly, MOnica. Archie died back in April. His mother couldn’t accept that and IMO was manipulated by outside forces. ( from experience) It’s better to find out what actually happened rather than take her anger and frustration out of the NHS, who I’m sure were doing their very best in a situation where there could be no winners.

That is your understanding and take on the situation Monica. Why is your explanation as how you see it correct?
You don't know the family or the circumstances, you read what we read, and form your opinion - it doesn't mean your opinion is the right one at all.

This case from parents to posters on this thread is full of people who are cannot see why things that are not possible cannot be done because they want them to happen.

It is evident to anyone who read the court judgments that this little boy died a month or more ago. It is a fiction to talk as if he was alive until today and fought to live to the end.

The same with moving him to a hospice. He was already dead. All you would be doing is getting him there, taking the systems that were keeping his body functioning away and calling the undertaker.

Quite apart from the fact that his condition was so unstable that even turning him over in bed could threaten his 'life', that so many of his support systems would have to be removed to get him into the ambulancce and there would be no room for a parent to travel with him, so the 'live' child who left the hospital would not be so by the time he reached the hospice.

Despite all these clear known causes and effects, people still say he should have been moved to a hospice, because it is what the mother says she wants and others think should be done.

I really do not understand this purblindness.

I fear this has the potential to become very messy.