Archie Battersbee

I think he has now died. All sympathy to his parents and family.

I agree GrannyGravy, our girls grew up with pets and rose from age 5. We never had to deal with anything as significant as the death of a friend in a riding accident but animals die and sometimes the vet needs to ease their passing. A friend’s horse was shot in the road outside our house after a speeding driver caught its back leg.
Age appropriate discussions help develop their understanding.

Anniebach

Is it a conversation that a 12 year old could talk through and
make a decision?

Our DD was coming up to 13, someone who she regularly competed with broke their neck in a competition and subsequently died.

So we had the conversation it wasn’t easy, but I do think being around animals that had been euthanised due to broken bones etc and the accident eased it slightly.

Is it a conversation that a 12 year old could talk through and
make a decision?

Monica, my daughter was exactly the same and I took the decision, like your mother, to put my daughter first and I know it was the right thing to do.
GrannyGravy what a really sensible conversation to have and I admire you you for doing it. Maybe it is something all families should do

Monica two of our children have always participated in dangerous sports, another is in the armed forces.

We had the conversation with them all at an age when we considered they grasped the importance and reality of what life would be like after a serious brain injury leading to an altered limited life. It was hard, there were tears but the conclusion was if there is no hope turn off the machines please.

Thank God their injuries have never been that serious and I have never had to implement our agreement, but I hope I would have the strength to do so as it was/is their wish.

There are many differences between Archie Battersbee and Lewis Roberts.

Lewis Roberts was certified dead and then showed signs of life, within 5 days of the initial accident.

Archie Battersbee has been on a life support system for nearly 4 months and if he was going to recover he would have shown signs of it by now. As it is we know that his brain and other organs have deteriorated beyond recovery.

And there is another question. Supposing the miracle occurred, it does not mean that Archie will make a full or even partial recovery. He will probably left in a vegetative, or near vegetative state. Is that in his best interests?

My mother looked that decision full in the face and decided that it was better her daughter died, than survived as little more than a living corpse. She did put her daughter's welfare before everything else including herself.

From what I’ve understood, Lewis Roberts family agreed to donate organs but before surgery, he blinked so the medical staff put every effort into maintaining his life. It wasn’t a quick recovery, several months before he spoke. It’s wonderful to read about him, not least because of the commitment of the medical team.

As the comments here show, many of us have faced dilemmas on end of life care.

The necrosis in Archie’s brain stem means that his brain has already started to break down as body tissue normally does after death. That is irreversible.

I don’t know, but he was declared brain dead and his parents
agreed to donate his organs,

But does it being into question the validity of the brain stem testing criteria ? How was he deemed to be brain dead and then subsequently survive ?

Jaffacake the tv interview was this week, his family were told he was brain dead and they agreed to donate his organs, he
wasn’t on life support for the length of time as Archie.

Anniebach

Lewis Roberts was recently interviewed on SKY news.

Annie,was it in the time frame of Archies case and was there any comparisons made ?

What a sad, sad situation this is. I pray for them all. May they find peace.

Of course she absolutely believes that he still has a chance of recovery. She wouldn’t go through all this if she didn’t.

I don’t suppose there’s a single person who has had a loved one in similar circumstances that hasn’t sat beside the bedside and watched the machines and the body, looking for the slightest flicker, the tiniest sign. Hoping for the miracle. Yes and praying, even as an believer with an “If you’re up there….”

But for all of us death is inevitable. Most of us will leave behind someone who wishes we were still there. And for them acceptance is the only way forward. Sometimes that acceptance comes before the actual death when we know there is no hope, nothing more to be done. Sometimes it comes a long while after.

For Archies mum I fear it will be a long while and that she will need much support. But because she could not make the decision it is right, for Archie, that others have taken that responsibility upon themselves. And they should be supported in that heavy responsibility too.

Lewis Roberts was recently interviewed on SKY news.

Just read article about case from today's Daily mail. Mum is talking about the case of Lewis Roberts from Staffordshire who was hit by a van last year and was declared brain stem dead. When he was taken off life support he started to breathe again and slowly recovered over time. He is now playing basketball again. His parents had already consented to his organs being donated,this was 4 days after the accident. Sorry can't seem to post a link . But is all in internet if you search his name.
Now I know this was a 1: million chance but it does show a problem with the brain stem testing criteria if this can happen
As a mum I would want to hold on for the miracle. Although in Archies case months have passed and all his organs have been affected with evidence on MRI of brain necrosis.
But it does give another insight into mums thought process. Why couldn't the miracle happen again for my son ?

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them. Matthew 18.20:

The Supreme Court or The European of Human Rights has no power before The Lord.

With absolute faith by his family, let them switch off the life support and watch the outcome, God Bless

Georgesgran

Not really a discussion but what a tragic situation all round. His parents must be broken having tried all avenues to keep him on life support. The medical opinion is that he’s brain cell dead and continuing his life support isn’t in his best interests.
It’s just heartbreaking.

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. John 14.13:

Amen to this.

yes.

It’s time. Let the poor boy go in peace now. x

The Guardian article is very interesting on the various parties with their own axes to grind getting involved with these cases, but it ducks out of discussing the problems with mediation, the main one of which is that both parties have to agree to take part.

Mediation requires both parties to agree to take part, be open to alternative solutions and other ideas. I am not convinced that in cases like the current one and others mentioned in that article, that there was ever any possibility that the parents would deviate from their insistence that the child should not be allowed to die and life support equipment should not be removed, and I think cases like these, would still end up in the courts.

This is not to say that mediation would never work, I am sure it would with less extreme cases, the ones that never make it to court anyway. But I suspect the ones we know about, the extreme ones that hit the courts, would still end up there.

Archie Battersbee: how third parties can further complicate tragic life support cases
www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/01/archie-battersbee-another-tragedy-highlights-need-for-independent-mediation-in-cases-of-children

Interesting article with a historic perspective.
Very interesting observations on Pavel Stroilev's involvement.

Thank you Nicky. I understand why your aunt was never the same.