Something I don’t understand Archie Battersbee

Casdon

sharon103

Aveline

I heard that his condition is so unstable that he might not survive the transport. How awful if he died in an ambulance. Terrible terrible tragedy. Wish I knew what the online dare was that led to his being in this state so we could be sure that others could be alerted to the dangerousness of it.

The young boy was found with a ligature on his head, with his mum believing that he may have been trying to partake in an online challenge called the ‘Blackout Challenge’.

Archie has not regained consciousness since the accident, and has remained in a coma since he was found.
Allegedly

What do you mean ‘allegedly’?

allegedly
/əˈlɛdʒɪdli/
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adverb
used to convey that something is claimed to be the case or have taken place, although there is no proof.

I agree with karmalady and iggdrasil. And I worry that all the resources - medical, nursing, equipment - might have been used to support a life that could be saved.

There was talk of moving the Bodach to a hospice at the end of his life, but the doctor explained that he would probably not survive the move. He was in a private room, we could stay with him, and staff treated us all very sensitively. I am sure that Archie’s hospital staff would make his last moments as dignified and peaceful as possible. I don’t think for a minute there would be the ‘ doors slamming and nurses coming in and out’ quoted by the mother. She seems fixated on criticising the hospital, even saying in one interview,” They did not care for Archie”.

I agree with Riverwalk its not a simple matter just to switch off there may be distressing consequences.

Archie has been lovingly cared for by the medical team and they will do their very best to give him a peaceful and dignified death. They have sadly a great deal of experience in dealing with dying children and their families. I hope that Archie is allowed to rest soon and my heart is with the parents.

Shelflife

It would be a huge and complicated process to move Archie to a hospice, I fully understand that. However a move would be as much ( if not more) for the parents as it would for the child. Archie will sadly never recover , however if he could be moved his parents / family will receive enormous professional support and that is so necessary for them after all that has happened and is still to happen. When the parents loose Archie they will feel they have done everything they possibly could for their son. Coupled with that they will always have the memory of the support the hospice was able to give them - a very necessary and important fact. They will also have access to counselling from the hospice after Archie had died - should they feel the need for that. Hopefully they will feel some comfort and peace , a hospice can facilitate this .

But all decisions made by the courts are in the best interests of Archie not his parents......and that has to be right.....he deserves a dignified death....not to potentially die in the back of an ambulance.

Deedaa You put the welfare of your DH before everything. What more could anyone ask?

I am glad you have found that, Mawthemerrier. However, I have also had extensive stays in hospital for my own condition, for my kids' conditions and for end of life care of 2 of my relatives. The medical staff have not been unkind but whilst sitting at their station they are clearly audible when discussing patients. It hasn't just been on one occasion but many times. That doesn't mean that I think that the hospital is wrong to do what they are doing, I just think there should be some compassion for the parents in this position and accept that it might be easier to see the woods from the trees from a distance.

Deedaa, ?.

I didn't have to agree to life support being withdrawn from DH but I was called in to see his consultant who told me he had now developed an unsurvivable condition, all treatment would be stopped and he had all ready signed off the DNR. We had known him for some years and I had complete faith in him so there was no argument. For the next six days DH was in a room with subdued lighting and a CD player if I wanted any music, In the end DD and I just sat there and chatted most of the time. Most of the staff had known him for a while and I had tremendous support from all of them.

In situations where death is the inevitable outcome, I have always found NHS staff to be kind and compassionate.

Other times, less so.

It always appears to me that NHS staff think that family are deaf and they often can be heard talking about freeing beds or telling the physio they must discharge. It sort of gives you an impression they are not making decisions in the patient's best interests. You are often given varying explanations about treatment required and when things are likely to be done so there is another area where mistrust sets in

All I can say that this was not the case when DH as allowed to slip away. He was not brain dead but in an induced coma and his organs were gradually packing up. The support given to them was reduced, the ventilator being left until last until I spotted from the monitor (turned to silent and away from us round his bed) that he was flatlining and his heart had stopped.
There was no pressure to follow this course of action despite having signed a DNR and if any of his organs had shown signs of coping unsupported, they would have gone on treating him for at least 24 hours to give the others a chance.
I simply do not recognise the scenario quoted above and hope that others who have personal experience would agree with me. I found throughout the 20 years of hospital admissions that if I asked informed questions of the right people and at the right time , I got sensible and compassionate answers.

DS is a paediatric ambulance transport dr.
The ambulance is full of equipment - there would be no room for the parents, so if the worst happened, they could not be there.
It sometimes takes hours to stabilise children enough for transport - even in his bed, they are struggling to stabilise this boy.
The family are supported by some aggressive lawyers. What would the next step be if the poor child died en route?
I am sure the hospital can provide the quiet, calm place the family require.

I doubt he is still looking as if he was still alive.

It must be dreadful for the mother to see her boy looking alive and to have to accept he is not going to make it.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear ?

Shelflife

It would be a huge and complicated process to move Archie to a hospice, I fully understand that. However a move would be as much ( if not more) for the parents as it would for the child. Archie will sadly never recover , however if he could be moved his parents / family will receive enormous professional support and that is so necessary for them after all that has happened and is still to happen. When the parents loose Archie they will feel they have done everything they possibly could for their son. Coupled with that they will always have the memory of the support the hospice was able to give them - a very necessary and important fact. They will also have access to counselling from the hospice after Archie had died - should they feel the need for that. Hopefully they will feel some comfort and peace , a hospice can facilitate this .

The problem is that the the medical experts have testified that there is a huge risk that Archie would not survive being transported to a hospice - it would be a challenge to even move him onto a trolley. He is on multiple drugs and interventions just to keep him stable in PICU. The expert testified that Archie is suffering dangerous drops in blood pressure just when they turn him to prevent pressure sores. The risk is that Archie's death would be chaotic and occur in a corridor, ambulance or lift and possibly without his parents present.

It is all detailed to todays court judgement
www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/FD22P00346-Battersbee-5-August-2022-Judgment-Final-Approved.pdf

It has not been established that an internet challenge caused this.

Don't get at me! It was a perfectly reasonable suggestion. I'm pretty sure, if young people simply can't stop looking at websites promoting these dangerous practices, that parents can use parental controls on devices at home or even switch off the WiFi. Why not really highlight these sites and have a media blitz on them? Yes determined youngsters might find a way but, as I said, if even one is saved that's got to be a good thing.

Aveline
I meant to add, are you aware of who owns TikTok?
He’s Chinese and one of the richest people in the country.
You have more chance of digging a hole in the North Sea than getting to him.

sharon103

Aveline

I heard that his condition is so unstable that he might not survive the transport. How awful if he died in an ambulance. Terrible terrible tragedy. Wish I knew what the online dare was that led to his being in this state so we could be sure that others could be alerted to the dangerousness of it.

The young boy was found with a ligature on his head, with his mum believing that he may have been trying to partake in an online challenge called the ‘Blackout Challenge’.

Archie has not regained consciousness since the accident, and has remained in a coma since he was found.
Allegedly

What do you mean ‘allegedly’?

Aveline
Do you not think that the hundreds of parents who’s children have learnt to self harm from videos on TikTok haven’t tried.
Or the children who copied symptons of Tourette’s and can not now stop

BlueBelle

Secretsquirrel You need to go on the thread that has already been going for some days and it has been clearly explained why he cannot be moved by people far more knowledgable than me

Go on it and read up all will be explained it’s not medically possible do read it

Ah ok thanks I’ll have a look for that.

Nexus63
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I didn’t realise it would take such a long time for a person to pass under these circumstances. That must have been so awful for you. X

nexus63 Your husband was brain dead, even if you hadn't turned the life support system off, he would have died.

As Rosie51 says, when people are grief-stricken, they say all kinds of things, they do not mean. Your sil was probably responding to the primal scream that comes from most of us when someone dear to us dies 'I do not want you to die' Few of us say it like that, but we get angry with anything or anyone that can be a focal point for that scream.

Fleurpepper

Others have explained well. But your own answer says it all

'If the poor child is in fact brain stem dead as the doctors say, then surely he wouldn’t suffer pain or discomfort to be moved to hospice? '

so what is the point, if it is not for his benefit?

Yes, I guess the only point would be to honor his parents wishes as it wouldn’t make any difference to the child.?