I know I am an Enabler for my adult daughter 45 but what do I do about the grandchildren?

You have said it yourself, you need to stop the handouts. Your daughter and her husband have chosen to live this way. Presumably her husband works, they can sort out their own finances. You can support your daughter with ‘phone calls and visits still.

I think you have been enabling her for so many years that frankly you have not just allowed, but perhaps have caused the situation to develop.
I am guessing you are in the US which makes it much more difficult to give advice as our way of life is so different.
What about her husband? Surely he is the one to deal with the situation.

I understand your problem Overit and you have done the right thing in my view in helping your daughter.I do not go along with this modern word of ‘enabling’.It is helping and it is your own daughter who you love, and she has problems.
I would continue to see her where you can and if you can’t then phone and message her regularly, so that she knows you love her and care about her problems.If you know that she needs cash help or the grandchildren do and you are able to do it, then continue, if you cannot really afford that, then stop.
Your grandchildren have lived this way and will accept it more than you can, and will move out in a matter of years in any case.
Would you like to move nearer to her for the future? Would that make things easier for you or worse? We never stop being Mothers and wanting the best for our children.Good luck to you with this problem.

My grandmother was in a similar position when my sister and I were kids - due to a dispute in the family. My grandparents had broken with my mother (long backstory) and my grandmother several times had to step in to stop me being sent to school with holes in my shoes or scruffy skirts from the second hand maket. She would like to have done a great deal more. However a family friend (who was also a solicitor) had warned her that a grandparent has no legal power in law over their grandchildren unless it can be shown in court that the actual parents are unfit. At any time my father could simply have forbidden my grandmother to see me and I often went behind his back to visit her when I lived at my parents home.

Therefore my grandmother had to remain "hands off" until I was well into my teens and able to accept her financial help. As a child I just had to "tough it out" in a very poor environment with a violent father and a mother who gave into him at every turn. It made me a stronger person.

I agree with Prentice, you are not an enabler, you are a loving mother trying to help your daughter.
I'm in a similar position and have people saying 'she is 48 years old and you're still helping her, its time to let her go.' I've decided to ignore them.
Could your daughter and children come and have a holiday with you ? You wouldn't have to see their living conditions then.

You need to go to therapy asap to stop this toxic cycle.

Only with a clear mind, you can make the right decisions

I really, really want to thank each and every one of you for your very thoughtful and helpful responses. Each response has given me something to think about and it did wonders for me just to be able to vent here. Thank you, all of your advise has been taken in and I will think about it.

She has been married for 20 years to a very nice young man but they have chosen in my opinion to put his career above the well being of their children.

To me your words mean he earns well - yes? If he does earn enough, perhaps stop giving monetarily?

She has always suffered up and down from mental issues, such as depression and now she thinks she has PMDD which may be correct.

Serious issues, perhaps help her find mental and medical help?

I wonder if you could invite the grandchildren for little breaks with you?
Would they come on visits do you think?
I would probably do as you say and just phone your daughter. Keep out of the money situation with your daughter if you can (hard I know).

If you find a little extra cash available can the grandchildren open bank accounts that are theirs? I don't know how old you have to be in America. If they can, you could quietly help them out directly by giving them a small allowance which will give them some choices. Who knows what is important at 14 or 18... ?
For my friend's daughter her first purchase was "nice knickers for sports". She was 13 I think and was sick of always having old underwear and was embarrassed when changing into sports kit with her classmates. Her single-parent mum had struggled with money despite two jobs and the girls were too kind and thoughtful to tell her how they felt.

I think you are being a very good mother who is trying to help out her daughter, however if in doing so it’s making your own health bad then you just have to stop.
Her husband is earning. The children are happy and cared for and are getting good grades, so your daughter is doing well by her kids.

As to the way they live?
It’s their life and you have to let them make grown up decisions, if they want to live in a home that’s in a mess, then let them, if they have Landlord trouble then you have to let them sort it out.

When she rings offer sympathy and a listening ear, but don’t jump in with offers of help or money.

I’m sure they will be fine, at some stage the money train has to stop, let it be now, you could send small gifts of money to the family, but just for Birthdays and Christmas?

The grandchildren don’t sound unhappy or lacking in possessions is it that you expected your daughter to have a better life style more clean and tidy etc Are you just giving money to ease your conscience because she is nt living the life you expected her to
She obviously needs to have some serious mental health intervention and perhaps helping her to get a job would be really helpful maybe she could work from home there’s really no excuse for not working now so many work from their own houses If the son in law is working and is a nice man why are you giving them monthly money ?? Are you suggesting they can’t live on his earnings The kids have computers etc so they sound catered for
Are you sure you aren’t overcompensating because she is not living the life staple you imagined after all she’s been married 20 years so it can’t be bad surely

Prentice even 'helping' can do more harm than good. One day overit will not be there she will have died and all of a sudden this ill-prepared family will have to manage on their own and that will probably do them more harm than if earlier on their mother and grandparent had tempered mercy with justice.

Helping children too much can do them more harm than good. I worked with someone in a very well paid job, who was constantly asking his father for money - and getting it. He was a profligate spender and would spend the morning getting his father to foot a car repair bill because he was broke, and then at lunch time go out to the up market department store opposite our office and spend £15 on a tie and hanky set This was in the late 1960s, so rather like going out and spending at least £100 today.

You can't set yourself on fire to keep others warm

You need to talk to a professional and get help to put healthy boundaries in place, then stick to them

You can still be a loving supportive mother while protecting your own health

Apart from just giving D money, perhaps give your 2 GD money for specific thing that are to be theirs?

I send a sort of standing order monthly to daughters' accounts, for small things we know our daughters' children could need. School uniforms, shoes, change to season clothing, coats. No effort or guessing, just happens.

Hi everyone: Again, I want to thank you all. I appreciate that some of you feel that I am not enabling but loving. I also appreciate those of you who have said, it is their lifestyle and just because it is not how I would live I need to accept it. I totally agree with this to a point but it is so hard to see such a mess and know my grandchildren live in it. However, I also agree that kids are adaptable. I also do want to let you all know that my daughter is seeing a psychiatrist and a therapist and has been on many different meds etc through the years. I have made sure she did this in her 20's when she had a complete breakdown. As I told Nora, this in itself is a problem because while I want to stop enabling so much and do a little bit of the tough love (which I have tried in the past), I also have to weigh that against putting too much pressure on her and causing another break. At any rate, I do just want to say thanks once more, all of your advice has been good and on point and much appreciated. I do know that I have to stop throwing money at the problem and just be as supportive as I can when I call and stay updated on the grandkids. I know my daughter has to fix herself in the end, and I can be there but not throw money at it. I also really appreciate the idea of putting money directly into the kids' accounts. My daughter's financial situation is a little strange, in that her husband makes money but they don't manage it at all and make awful decisions, (probably due to my consistent bail outs), and I am going to definitely stop doing that. Thank you lovely people. I hope I can do as good a job on feedback to other people on this site when they post their various problems. It is a life saver

Monica there is a world of difference between a greedy young man taking his Father’s money and the daughter of the OP who has both mental health problems and is delicate.
Also the fact that the OP wants her grandchildren to have nice things from time to time. Yes, we will all die one day but hopefully her DD will be in a better place mentally by then.
We do what we can, don’t we to support our adult children because we known that they need it.Tough love is not for all, it can break them.
Glad that you have reached a compromise with the situation
Overit and hope to see you again on Gransnet.

Prentice

Monica there is a world of difference between a greedy young man taking his Father’s money and the daughter of the OP who has both mental health problems and is delicate.
Also the fact that the OP wants her grandchildren to have nice things from time to time. Yes, we will all die one day but hopefully her DD will be in a better place mentally by then.
We do what we can, don’t we to support our adult children because we known that they need it.Tough love is not for all, it can break them.
Glad that you have reached a compromise with the situation
Overit and hope to see you again on Gransnet.

Indeed. Giving gifts is different to bailing out. It appears the H makes money, they just spend different to OP. A easy solution is giving to her GC needs.

No vault behind a hearse, I'd happily spend my last money the day I die.

Over it, some very good advice. But I’m sending you flowers💐 and a hug. In no small way your grandchildren doing well is down to you, the true constant in their lives and I know how hard it is. Think of your mental health and put yourself first now.

Overit that is such a nice response.

At its best it is a good site and most of us do really want to help if we can.
Sometimes we can be a bit "snippy" but I'm really pleased you have found some ideas here and ways to cope.

I'm sure your daughter and your grandchildren all see you as a point of stability and whilst they are not living the life you would choose for them it's not all bad as the grandchildren are doing well in school and your daughter is taking advantage of mental health support.
It could be much worse.

Thinking of you.

There is a difference between helping children who are struggling financially, and constantly baling out bab money managers. As I read it this family has a good salary coming in and I am really not convinced that that the best way to help a family like this is to throw money at them.

The problem is not just that the mother has mental problems but that father cannot or will not manage his, as I read it,substantial salary and has no incentive to so do because his MiL will always bale them out.

It should be quite easy to help the children but not the parents - pay for out of school activities, or books and stationery, possibly lunches and so on. The OP controls this money and pays it herself to the person providing the service. This leaves the parents to run the home and provide everything at home. Forget about what the flat is like indoors, when you go to visit, do not stay with them, stay in a hotel or bed& breakfast guest house and meet the family outside or in restaurants, or other indoor venues. If you do not go in the house, or at worst only briefly, then you will see nothing to upset you.

I have a similar problem with DS and wife. I am tidy, they are not, although the house and every thing in it is kept clean. I find I can cope with the untidiness during the day when I know when evening arrives I will go back either to stay with Ds's MiL, we are good friends, or a hotel

I am now going to say something that will shock some people. To what extent is the daughter with the mental health problems, using her problems to emotionally blackmail her mother into providing money and solving all her problems. Might the daughter be more prepared to take part in activities that might help her, if her mother was not so willing to rush to the rescue as soon as the daughter says she has a problem?

Do not worry about the grandchildren, many a child has survived living in an untidy environment, what matters is whether they feel secure and loved at home. You say the children are untroubled by the chaos at home and doing well at school. It seems to me that you worry too much about the children, it sounds as if they are OK. My grandchildren are very much loved and nurtured and doing well at school and outside. How tidy their house is - or not, doesn't matter, they are quite happy living there.

Do you live somewhere you can offer breaks for your grandchildren to come and stay or to take them on a holiday. I have an adult child who I help too. He is not married though and lives at home. My so was treated for depression too but it actually turned out he has severed adhd. He is now on strong meds and his life has changed 100%

Stop giving money to your daughter & SIL! If there is sufficient money going into the household, then it is up to the adults to manage their situation. You can give your grandchildren gifts from time to time, of course, but beware of setting up an expectation as you clearly have with your daughter. Is this harsh? No - it's giving her the autonomy she should have had once she was an adult with a household of her own. It could be that she sees herself as a helpless recipient and is lacking in motivation to make the effort to manage her life.

You can only do so much for your kids but she isn’t a kid anymore she is a grown woman she should be helping you not other way round. Your her mum not her keeper. What I was married my ex hubby had problems with drinking and was also seeking help at one of the meetings I was asked why I did everything for him and I couldn’t really answer and I was told you are not helping you are aiding him. He will never change while you are. I know it’s not the same but by helping her you are aiding her and she is letting you so you need to stand back and think of yourself. Over here in uk they say you have to be cruel to be kind

You sound like a lovely, caring person who has consistently tried to help a daughter with chronic MH issues, and it also sounds as though your daughter has also done her best to enable her children to be able to become independent when they leave school. The children seem to be real survivors and probably are very emotionally intelligent now.. I would continue to be loving towards them all, especially to your son in law who has hung in there, and maybe just ask the girls to let you know if they need anything. I don't think handouts enable people to be in true control of their lives..