Am I old fashioned?

I was brought up in a strict house and my sons were brought up in a military home also strict but by the teens I’d split with their dad but I was more relaxed with them. My sons are more relaxed with their children but I look at kids today and think a lot of them are out of control and I think it’s because we knew if act up or someone came to the door about something we had done we knew we in trouble but today they know they can’t be smacked it’s child abuse or shouted at its mental abuse so my friend grandson was telling us that what school told him

Children need rights and need to be made aware those rights come with responsibilities.

biglouis your comment resonates with me. I was always told " I have kept you at school till you are 14,( then 16 then 18 ) and I haven't had a penny out of you. I was also blamed for her "bad figure " because she couldn't afford a corset because she had to buy my uniform

When I was brought up, if you told a Policeman you were clobbered with a book round the head and were too frightened to go home, they just took you home. GP's would suggest rape was a thing you made up and that your mother's violence seemed unlikely as she was such a nice woman. Nowadays, a hint of a smack and you can find yourself in serious trouble. Which era would I prefer to live in as a child...no prizes for guessing!
I rarely smacked my children and if I did, it was a tap on the hand as it strayed to the plug socket. By the time they were school age, they were aware that I had authority but weren't scared of me hitting them but would never have hit me. I don't understand why things have gone so wrong but I suspect it has more to do with social media and something causing more neurodiversity than used to be a problem. I have no evidence for this but something somewhere is going wrong.

My DGC are all being brought up to loudly voice their opinions which the parents tolerate but I don't. If they are rude to me I tell them off in a firm voice and it rarely happens again for quite a few weeks. They look really amazed that it's not acceptable to speak like that to adults.
Food is mostly tailored to what each child wants and they choose their own clothes in shops. Mine didn't get any choices until 11 or 12, when they could prepare their own food, and budget a monthly clothing allowance.

Let's not overlook the fact that there are quite a number of very rude older people out there too. In fact, when out and about, I see bad manners / behaviour from people of all ages, just as I see very good manners / behaviour in all ages too.

When I was much younger I was in love with a Borstallion. I had a Heathcliffe complex.

We always here about the badly behaved young people and children but a lot of young people work hard and children have good manners and behave well. We can't generalise. How many lads went to Borstal in our day.

It's trite to shrug off the problem with "parenting changes".
We all ought to see the problems of unsocialised children, and try to think of how to solve the problem.

The bad mannered child will be disadvantaged socially and at work when she leaves home.

The bad mannered child may feel entitled to what she is not entitled to when he leaves his parents' protection.

Obviously the child needs to be socialised, but the problem is how to do it. Asks the experts, the primary school teachers, how to socialise a child and they will tell you when to be liberal and when to be disciplined

Yes parenting changes, as does everything else.

My upbringing in the 1950s and 60s was very modern for its time, as my parents explained why we had to do things, or were not allowed to do them, rather than telling us what to do.

We were only smacked once or twice that I can remember for very serious infractions of rules and for doing potentially dangerous things.

Sex was explained as and when we were old enough to ask about it. Death likewise.

However, we were expected to do as we were told, to eat what was put before us and to go to bed at a fixed bedtime - all things that horrify modern parents. We were out of nappies when we were two (Oh horror, says the modern mum)
We could sit still and be quiet when asked to, before we went to school and had learned to tie our own shoe-laces as preparation for that great event: Going to school.

Of course, I am old-fashioned - that is natural, as I will be 71 by the end of this month!

I am pleased that my daughter has brought up her children with good manners.
I worry about those children whose parents pander to their every whim, they must be a nightmare for their teachers.

As always, it is a matter of balance. My children were born in the nineties and I like to think l was firm but fair. My oldest son is autistic and without strict boundaries and rules it would have been a nightmare. Hithere, I cannot agree with asking what a child would like for dinner. In our house, I was determined that my children would have a balanced diet and not be fussy eaters. The rule was that they had to at least try what was on the plates and they knew that if you wanted anything else they had to eat at least two thirds of it. They had to ask permission to leave the table and there was nothing else to eat from that point until the next meal. Of course, I would accommodate individual likes and dislikes or sensitivities. Please and thank yous were non-negotiable. They were given age-appropriate choices. I suppose I ran a benign dictatorship but there was a lot of love, laughter, support and hugs.

I too grew up fearing my mother, and believe me, she didn't spare the rod. Neither were there any signs of affection.

I was determined that my children would not be brought up the same way, and they always had plenty of cuddles, hugs and love. We had rules, of course, they learnt how to be well-mannered and thoughtful of others. They have grown up to be delightful adults, and it seems as though the grandchildren will be the same.

Big changes in child rearing since my DDs were growing up in the 1970s/80s. Generally the changes are for the better. Parents now are now more open in their shows of affection to their children - lots of hugs and cuddles. It's lovely to see. They also talk more to their children, discuss things, praise their children. This makes children more confident which is good. I was brought up in the 1940s and 50s and the attitude was very much that children should be seen and not heard, and "mustn't get too big for their boots". My parents rarely praised me. When I was second in the class exams their response was "perhaps next year you'll be first". When I had my children I vowed to give lots of praise. My DDs laugh at me now. "Mum, you always said "that's brilliant" even when we got 4 out of 10 for a spelling test".

Sons typically use their fathers as role models and daughters their mothers.

If the father is a wife beater and mother beater so will his sons be unless they are deliberately taught otherwise. If the girls' mother is a nag or a bully the girls poor things will be fucked-up too unless someone else teaches them different.

It's one thing to give the kids freedom and scope to learn and enjoy themselves and quite wrong to not socialise kids.

I am a traditionalist who believes weaker persons such as elderly, pregnant women, babies and children, ill people, and disabled people should get extra polite attentions from adults and children. Children can learn that it's fun to be gallant and good mannered.

People work longer hours/commutes and there's a lot more pressure in the classroom with testing and exams. Maybe kids and families are more stressed and time-starved and this shows up in their relationships with the people they are closest to. As for the thank you notes, younger and dyslexic children, for example, might take ages to write a legible thank you note by hand, not a priority when there's homework imho. Most of them will be typing fast online by the time they hit double digits and communication is electronic - my very clever oldest son didn't know how to address and stamp an envelop properly aged 15 as he'd never needed to. With the friends and relatives who use email or social media, well, they quickly got thank you notes along with a photo as this is how many youngsters communicate these days.

Mine all have good manners the wee one even thanks me for dinner when she goes home every Sunday ,she has just turned 3.The 4 older GC dont send thank you letters but they do phone me or msg me for presents .I could always take my own 2 anywhere and not worry they wouldn't behave well.It was aways commented on .They wouldn't interrupt and cold happily keep themselves amused when necessary
My GC have been brought up the same way despite my daughter telling me I was "old school ..they had rules from when they were very small and we had no tantrums ...well we had one but when she stamped her feet I did it too .
Food was something I didn't want issues over,my mother was a "fussy eater" all her life and she never made us et anything we didn't like...we had to try it first though ,so if my kids didn't like something I happily cooked different things for them sometimes 3 meals a t one sitting.

"Would you like (whatever)?’ and the answer would be a shruggy ‘OK’.

NO! It’s ‘Yes please!’ or ‘No, thank you,’ you ill-mannered little wretch!"

Ill mannered little wretch? Wow

One thing that really used to rile me, since it happened quite a bit at work, was when I’d ask a child, ‘Would you like (whatever)?’ and the answer would be a shruggy ‘OK’.

NO! It’s ‘Yes please!’ or ‘No, thank you,’ you ill-mannered little wretch!
Of course I never actually said it, since Mummy would usually be close by. I just had a silent little inward seethe - with the plastic smile glued on.

My grandchildren have all been brought up without any rules and never heard the word No. I am horrified by their chaotic bedrooms, their crazy diets, their hideous clothes. But I didn’t do things the way my grandparents did and don’t expect my daughters to either.

I’m currently on vacation and have been entertained watching how the various nationalities treat their children. The restaurant in particular is fascinating We returned to this hotel because the food is very high quality with lots of choice. In my day we would have taken a child each to the serving stations to guide their choices.
It seems that most of the children here are allowed to select what they fancy resulting in some fascinating combinations such as chips covered in Nutella, plates piled with deserts etc
I believe the parents are taking the “anything for a quiet life” approach.
I can’t help but feel a bit sad for the little ones.

We believed in setting boundaries but were open to reasoned negotiation from our children. Rather than “what would you like for dinner?” they might be asked “ would you prefer fish or chicken for dinner?” I never cooked a separate meal for anyone. I have seen some younger mums pandering to every child’s preferences turning dinner into a logistic nightmare.

Our two never had a tantrum or meltdown. We had disagreements certainly but they knew where the line was drawn and that they were loved and protected.
Manners were paramount and rudeness wasn’t tolerated. They learned how to conduct themselves e.g. at the table by example.
I am delighted to say our grandchildren are being brought up mostly in a similar manner.

Not to mention Shakespeare, Franbern - something on the lines of, ‘Would that there were no age between 15 and 30 because in between there is nothing but stealing, fighting, wronging the ancientry, getting wenches with child…’.

IIRC from Henry IV part 2, though could well be wrong.

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets, inflamed with wild notions.
Comment from Plato.....

It is part of growing older to complain about youth. Also is, always has been!!!!!

I think dh and I were pretty chilled parents, but we would never put up with rudeness, bad manners, or answering back. Maybe we were just lucky but such matters very rarely arose.

Dh’s father was very strict, to the point of harshness, from all I’ve ever heard - resulting ultimately in his eldest brother leaving home and not returning at all for 2 years - so
dh certainly went the other way.

My folks expected instant obedience and almost invariably got it. They weren’t particularly strict at all, and there was only the occasional smack, but my father in particular (who was a very jolly type) had a natural authority - TBH we just did as we were told - albeit maybe sometimes sulkily. We would never have thought of answering back - that would almost certainly have resulted in a very swift wallop.

TBH I’m often shocked to hear younger parents complaining of children’s blatant rudeness to them - and the helpless ‘What can you do?’ attitude from such parents.