The case against ID cards

vegansrock

Obviously it’s easy to say “you don’t know what you’re talking about” when others disagree with you. Maybe if you lived in a democratic country with ID cards you’d find it didn’t make any difference to your freedom to go about your daily activities. We’ve got a right wing government here trying to take away freedoms to protest, go on strike, claim asylum etc yet no talk of ID cards. I can imagine that would be seen as unBritish and somehow an example of the nanny state by Tory supporters, who nevertheless vote to curb important actual freedoms.

I lived in France.

Maybe if you didn't make assumptions about what motivates people we'd all get along better.

It is interesting really. To me, my French residence / ID card (which included fingerprinting) is extremely reassuring. It proves to everyone that I have the right to live here. My UK passport does that in the UK, but obviously not everyone has one.
It is very difficult to live "under the radar" here. I guess it is a matter of personal opinion whether that is a good or bad thing.

Dont say we didn’t warn you

volver this is a theoretical discussion. Despite the fact that a number of posters have said that they’d be okay with ID cards, we are not going to have them. Some of us would quite like them for a variety of reasons, but you have no need to warn us about anything, because it’s simply not going to happen, at least not in my lifetime.

Obviously it’s easy to say “you don’t know what you’re talking about” when others disagree with you. Maybe if you lived in a democratic country with ID cards you’d find it didn’t make any difference to your freedom to go about your daily activities. We’ve got a right wing government here trying to take away freedoms to protest, go on strike, claim asylum etc yet no talk of ID cards. I can imagine that would be seen as unBritish and somehow an example of the nanny state by Tory supporters, who nevertheless vote to curb important actual freedoms.

volver

^I and I imagine the rest of the posters are all well aware that an ID card is not the same as a Bus Pass or a Library Card volver^

Both those things have been used on this thread as examples of identity cards people carry with them. Maybe not everybody is as informed as you are GG13.

They have been used as an example of proving who you are to use a facility, nobody has said they are ID cards as in all encompassing.

I would be interested to why you think an ID card would be dangerous ?

I think it would be a Government with maverick intentions that would be the danger, not a piece of plastic.

Having lived in France for 17 years I have no problems with carrying an identity card (I have never heard any French friends object either).
We always used to carry copies of our passports, but now have residence cards which are very similar to French ID cards.
After the trauma and uncertainties of Brexit, I was delighted to get it.
I have mostly used it to prove identity for financial transactions and getting in and out of the country without a stamp on my passport. I have never been stopped in the street, but was asked to show it last week because the health authority insists on using my maiden name and my identity card has both names.
It is a useful document, that is all.

Oldwoman70

volver I understand you are passionate about this but is it really necessary for you to make sarcastic remarks - it does nothing to advance your point of view

There's more chance of asking a fish not to swim.
Good luck anyway.

Baggs

oldwoman is right though, V. I know cos I've made the same mistake with sarcasm myself.

Have a hey ho moment instead ☕️🙂

Good advice.

I and I imagine the rest of the posters are all well aware that an ID card is not the same as a Bus Pass or a Library Card volver

Both those things have been used on this thread as examples of identity cards people carry with them. Maybe not everybody is as informed as you are GG13.

I'm careful about what I google these days in case I am arrested for a murder I didn't commit

volver

Oldwoman70

volver I understand you are passionate about this but is it really necessary for you to make sarcastic remarks - it does nothing to advance your point of view

I have tried explaining it in a straightforward manner. I have tried explaining that ID cards are not the same as library cards or bus passes. I have tried explaining that having a centralised system that identifies us all, that is compulsory and can be used by governments to achieve whatever they want, is not acceptable to me.

But still people say "I can't see the problem, it would be good, and if you have nothing to hide...."

There's only sarcasm left. 😟

I and I imagine the rest of the posters are all well aware that an ID card is not the same as a Bus Pass or a Library Card volver

Many posters including myself have posted that a Government with nefarious intentions does not need the populace to carry ID cards. It can carry out its intentions regardless, all it needs is collusion with others, Judiciary, Police, Civil Servants and a compliant populace.

It does get rather tedious when you consistently tell us we are uniformed …

oldwoman is right though, V. I know cos I've made the same mistake with sarcasm myself.

Have a hey ho moment instead ☕️🙂

Oldwoman70

volver I understand you are passionate about this but is it really necessary for you to make sarcastic remarks - it does nothing to advance your point of view

I have tried explaining it in a straightforward manner. I have tried explaining that ID cards are not the same as library cards or bus passes. I have tried explaining that having a centralised system that identifies us all, that is compulsory and can be used by governments to achieve whatever they want, is not acceptable to me.

But still people say "I can't see the problem, it would be good, and if you have nothing to hide...."

There's only sarcasm left. 😟

I've read this thread carefully and still don't see why having an ID card means giving up our freedom. I've always been in favour of them and would happily carry one.

volver I understand you are passionate about this but is it really necessary for you to make sarcastic remarks - it does nothing to advance your point of view

volver

Yes of course.

Let's give up all our freedoms so that nanna8 has more space in her wallet.

🤦🏼‍♀️

nanna8 is not in the U.K.

Yes of course.

Let's give up all our freedoms so that nanna8 has more space in her wallet.

🤦🏼‍♀️

You need ID cards to get into Costco, the country clubs here, planes, ships, doctors’ surgeries, dentists.It is compulsory to carry a driver’s licence if you are driving. It would be nice to have the same one for everything.I would like more space in my wallet.

If everyone had universal ID then there wouldn't be groups disadvantaged by not having a passport etc

There maybe not as much evidence of voter fraud in the UK as there could be because it is so easy to do.

I don’t know why any law abiding citizen should object to carrying one.

Because laws can change? It's an overused example, but who, in 1920, would have thought that the restrictions on movement for many groups all over Europe would have been in place 20 years later? And we all know where that ended.

I don't buy the 'if you don't do anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about' argument, really. It can be a bit smug (I am an intrinsically good person and the UK is an intrinsically good place), and takes no account of the way these things can turn on a sixpence. I still feel that there is now so much information on us that a card would make very little difference. If anyone is in doubt, watch an episode of Hunted.

A rogue government doesn’t need ID cards to carry out dastardly deeds

What it does need is collusion on every level, Police, Judiciary, civil servants and the majority of the populace to go along with their demands.

Having an ID card or not what not stop any Government from nefarious intentions.

I don't know what I think about this, I've never really given it a lot of thought before. I use my driving licence, occasionally a passport as a form of identification, I realise not everybody has either of those.

I will follow the thread and listen to both sides of the argument and perhaps give the matter some more thought. I can see that sometimes, what we assume to be straight forward and harmless could in fact have sinister connotations, which in a nutshell is I dunno!

Aveline

It would be really nice if some people really gave some up to date thinking about ID. Biometric data is sure to come in sooner or later. Knee jerk anti everything reactions would be outdated soon enough.

Biometrics came in years ago. I worked in a company that was developing it for banks 3 decades ago.

Try to keep up to date.

growstuff

volver You could also throw away your birth certificate and utility bills along with your driving licence, but you'd find it quite difficult to prove your ID, if you applied for a job, wanted to open a bank account or apply for benefits or wanted to rent a property. A single ID card could make it easier to do those things without having to send off a pack of ID documents.

I agree that I'd want to know what its purpose would be and I'd want the government to be accountable for future uses, but not having an ID card doesn't deter the government from introducing draconian laws anyway.

Yes, this is what I was going to say.

The UK is almost unique on this point. I don't know of any EU country, for instance, where identitiy cards have not been the norm for a very long time, and are now biometric.

What the Law should do- is limit what info can be put on card and how it is used. But, and there is a bit BUT - I do not trust this current Government, hell bent on privatising everything, to not abuse this system. As the NHS is being privatised- and with private health insurance their aim- anyone with pre-exisiting conditions would become victims of such a system, same for Life Insurance- although this is already the case as GPs have to disclose any such when you apply.

Like so many things, it is not an easy question at all.