The case against ID cards

I would not like one either.

As of course you know Volver the main purpose of ID cards is to enable the authorities to pounce on people who jdon’t have one.
It’s the smart card element that is so disconcerting - this govt is so incompetent with IT that there are bound to be endless glitches and hitches and the whole thing will judder to the ground. Meanwhile people will have been refused this and turned away from that quite unnecessarily.
Very worrying. Thanks for raising it.

Have you never used Government Gateway?

The government already holds loads of information about you, whether you like it or not.

It has your bank account details, if you're receiving a pension or benefits or have a government savings account (which I do). It knows your date of birth and you can be tracked very easily.

If you have a bus pass or a Railcard, your public transport journeys could be tracked. Your local council has details about how long you've lived at your address and who lives with you.

The way I see it, the horse has already bolted for people who want to keep their lives private. As for the police asking for ID, I'd be quite happy if there were enough police on the streets.

But why wouldn't people have an ID card? I still have my official National Insurance card in my wallet (issued automatically when I first started work) and recently used it when ID was required for something.

Yes I have all these things. Point is, I don't have to have any of them.

And nobody, police officer or not, gets to ask me who I am if I'm just walking down the street.

We give things up at our peril.

growstuff

But why wouldn't people have an ID card? I still have my official National Insurance card in my wallet (issued automatically when I first started work) and recently used it when ID was required for something.

That's nice. But if you want to throw it away and not tell anyone, then that's allowed.

I wouldn’t want one either, they have enough information as it. It lays it open for being stopped and asked to show your your ID card for whatever reason by official. I have a passport and a driving licence that’s enough to prove its mr.

volver

Yes I have all these things. Point is, I don't have to have any of them.

And nobody, police officer or not, gets to ask me who I am if I'm just walking down the street.

We give things up at our peril.

No, you don't have to have any of the cards, but the government and council still hold data about you.

volver

growstuff

But why wouldn't people have an ID card? I still have my official National Insurance card in my wallet (issued automatically when I first started work) and recently used it when ID was required for something.

That's nice. But if you want to throw it away and not tell anyone, then that's allowed.

True, my point was that the government could issue an ID card automatically when people turn 16 just as they do (or did) NI cards.

Barmeyoldbat

I wouldn’t want one either, they have enough information as it. It lays it open for being stopped and asked to show your your ID card for whatever reason by official. I have a passport and a driving licence that’s enough to prove its mr.

Why would having ID cards encourage the police to stop people randomly? They're not supposed to stop people without a reason, but if they do, they'll ask for ID (I assume - I've never been stopped). It's a change in the law which allowed random stops which would be dangerous, not having ID cards.

Is it called a driver’s licence? That is what they want to see when they want photo I.D.here. Can’t see the diff really except those who don’t drive have to get a special ID thing which is a bit of a nuisance for them. Just one more card in your wallet along with health cards, library cards etc etc

I have one to live in France. Been here over 30 years and I've never yet been asked by a Gendarme to produce it, it lives in a drawer in the house. I use my driving licence if needed at la poste. Not a problem as far as I'm concerned

nann8 I usually use my driving licence too, when (for example) I want to pick something up from the post office. Unless you still have an old-fashioned paper licence, they have a photo and address, so are a good form of ID.

nanna8

Is it called a driver’s licence? That is what they want to see when they want photo I.D.here. Can’t see the diff really except those who don’t drive have to get a special ID thing which is a bit of a nuisance for them. Just one more card in your wallet along with health cards, library cards etc etc

When I lived in Oz I was once breathalysed as they were breathalysing everybody who drove along a particular urban street.

I was not happy, and told them so.

I am fairly ambivalent about them. I wouldn't want to live in a society where you could be stopped and asked to prove who you are 'just because', and I appreciate that having them at all could be the thin end of a wedge, but I wouldn't mind too much. I was a bit uneasy about Covid passports being linked to NHS records though. I really don't like the idea of anyone other than my doctor having access to health records, but that's a different question.

Mr Dog is absolutely, 100% against them. He doesn't have ID at all, as his driving licence is an old one, and his passport has expired, and he refuses to renew it unless and until he knows he is going to go abroad. I think it's ridiculous to have no proper form of ID, and TBH I don't think he realises how many things he might need it for, as it just hasn't come up. He isn't looking for work, he doesn't want a new bank account, and doesn't even buy bottles of booze as presents from Amazon . I have done all those things in the last 10 years, as well as going abroad, so can see the need for some form of ID. I have pointed out that if 'they' wanted to know anything about him they could find out easily enough, but he just says that that may be true but he's not going to make it easier for them. He'll need a new driving licence in a couple of years, as he'll be 70, so he'll have to have a photo one then, if we don't go abroad beforehand.

Until they come with a valid reason why I really need one, I’m not bothered.
As growstuff said, people already have so much information on us -more than I like, and I can’t do anything about it.
Being obliged to have one wouldn’t be a problem for me, any more than having passport or an identity lanyard for work bothers me. I don’t get why it worries people though.

I wouldn't mind one and I can see how they would be helpful. Watching a programme the other night about shop lifting, a woman who was obviously a professional shoplifter made up a load of rubbish about not having any ID, it not being her phone, it not being her boyfriend outside the door with her handbag, etc, etc. This happens quite often apparently so you can imagine the amount of time it takes the authorities to work out who you are is ridiculous. It's bad enough not having enough police about but if the ones that are working hard are having to go through this, it must be soul destroying and takes them away from detecting crime.
My main concern is that the Government would sell the details to insurance companies or other big business. If it could be enshrined in Law that they could not do this, I would be very comfortable with this. Germany, Italy,, and Spain all have them without people feeling they are living under Big Brother so I don't see why we can't.

I don't know

Is it literally to prove you are a UK citizen?

I often think it would be handy to carry a card that holds your blood type and medical needs as well as your wishes when it comes to DNR or organ donation.

I suppose it could also be used to prevent some crimes if it tracked location pr it was needed to gain access to buildings

But I don't know how carrying one would be enforced and I am very sure fake or cloned cards would soon exist

Are there any countries that do have this sort of identity card?

I have often worked in buildings where a swipe card was needed to gain entry.

Just thinking about the data held by government on us reminded me about my parents deaths. We used the Tell Us Once service after both their deaths. It saves a lot of time and effort at a difficult time, but the service informs pretty much everyone, everyone that’s official that is, that the person has died. It’s convenient for the bereaved, but the point is, that the service can only work because so much information is held on each of us by officialdom.
I don’t have a problem with ID cards. Since they are not obligatory I’d be happy to partake in such a scheme if it were available just on a voluntary basis. I have a passport with all my information on it, what’s the difference? I know what will be said, that no one has the right to demand who you are if you are simply walking down the street. I don’t think it would turn us into a police state anymore than other western democracies are police states but they do have an ID card scheme. And it would make it much more difficult for people to work under the radar.

Being in business and often needing to transfer money abroad I sometimes have to prove my ID when I register for services. As I dont drive I will have to spend best part of £100 for a new passport when the old one expires. Even though I have no intention of travellling again. An ID card would save me a lot of hassle.

An ID card is a compulsory document that a government insists you carry at all times. You have to produce it whenever asked and to take part in the national life of the country.

It's not a driving licence, library card or swipe card to get into your work. It's a whole different ballgame.

Incidentally, I never had a covid passport and I never had that app that beeped when you were close to someone who had tested positive. (Or whatever it did...)

And it would make it much more difficult for people to work under the radar

How?