The case against ID cards

I'm against them.

We have to prove ID to access goods and services but that's very different from an official ID card, that eventually you would have to show on demand when out and about minding your own business.

Clearly I'm in a minority.

Ach well.

Don't say we didn't warn you 😂

I agree wholly with vegansrock. I’ve lived in four different counties where I was required to carry an ID card and was never asked to produce it. I can’t see it being made mandatory under any government in this country but it wouldn’t bother me if it was.

vegansrock

No, coordinated identity cards don’t have to be made compulsory, would you be against that? The one time I was asked for ID and didn’t have it, I was just told to remember it next time. Big Deal. I wasn’t asked to account for anything or asked what I was doing. I think you are imagining being harassed when going down to the bookshop by burly police officers demanding your papers and wanting to know your movements. Anyone with a smart phone can be tracked these days. I’d like more efficient and coordinated public services. Thank you very much. I certainly didn’t perceive any fewer freedoms when living in an ID country , in fact I felt better protected.

Please don't be patronising, it's not like you.

The discussion is about ID cards, not bus passes.

Aye, daft of me really.

Try to have a discussion about how the government want to control more of our lives and I'm just giving into conspiracy theory.

Have you noticed that there will be voter id requirements are the next GE? Have you noticed the several times that id card bills have got through parliament, only to be dropped at the last minute?

So not a vote loser at all. Quite the opposite.

No, coordinated identity cards don’t have to be made compulsory, would you be against that? The one time I was asked for ID and didn’t have it, I was just told to remember it next time. Big Deal. I wasn’t asked to account for anything or asked what I was doing. I think you are imagining being harassed when going down to the bookshop by burly police officers demanding your papers and wanting to know your movements. Anyone with a smart phone can be tracked these days. I’d like more efficient and coordinated public services. Thank you very much. I certainly didn’t perceive any fewer freedoms when living in an ID country , in fact I felt better protected.

IMO they’d be a good idea - except that I dare say criminals would soon find a way to replicate them.

However I would not support the idea of being obliged to carry them at all times.

As far as I’m aware, no one is suggesting the UK adopts mandatory carrying of ID cards at all times. I suspect it’s fairly obvious that it would be a vote loser. So pretty pointless discussion really. Is there a conspiracy theory topic you could join?

Freedom to be in my own country doing perfectly legal and innocuous things without having to account for my own actions.

Of course you don’t have to make carrying ID at all times compulsory

But that is what ID cards are, that's what we are discussing. That is the point.

But what are these “freedoms”exactly? Of course you don’t have to make carrying ID at all times compulsory, it could just be used as and when needed for health, employment, education etc. It could just be a gathering of information which is already existing in disjointed areas. I think people are imagining some totalitarian 1984- type police state, but when I lived in a country with ID it was far from that.

Anyone who not bothered about random public officials stopping them going about their business, and asking them to prove they have a right to be in a public place, quite frankly doesn't understand what they at giving up. Just look at some of the measures the current government are trying to introduce. Electronic tags and confinement at home for those who have been on demos in the last five years. And you're happy to give them more control over your life?

Don't insult anyone's intelligence by saying "oh they know all this anyway". When will we draw the line? Or will we never draw the line?

The system would be accountable to the public? That's always gone well for us in the past, hasn't it? 🙄

My freedoms in this country are not "notional", they are real. They'll become "notional" if we give everything up and let the government and police control us. They work for us remember, not the other way round. I am a bit taken aback at how many people will just throw our freedoms away for what they think will be a bit of an easy life.

I’ve lived in a country where we had ID cards and yes have been asked to produce it by police (random check) can’t say it bothered me, I found it useful on many occasions. I am in favour of ID cards on the whole, anyone who thinks they can live totally privately obviously never uses any public health, education , pensions, benefits, never travels or uses any social media. There’s lots of info out there on us and an ID card would bring lots of public services together more efficiently. It could prove citizenship, avoiding such scandals as Windrush, since the data could be used to control and confirm immigration and citizenship, prove entitlement to vote, use health services, useful in employment, maybe even give some sense of national cohesion. It could also save money in avoiding duplication of so many different ID forms. States such as South Korea and a Taiwan tacked the Corona Virus much more efficiently as they had more detailed data set on its citizens in terms of health records and travel history. We tried a one off track n trace app , but a national identity system would have made this unnecessary, more efficient, and could have saved £billions (and lives). This data would be of course fully accountable to the public. It could help prevent voter fraud and identity theft. Social media has meant there’s loads of data out there without any accountability. Any notions of total privacy have been broken down somewhat in the digital age. Yes, you could easily forge a card, but you can’t so easily forge the data behind it . The main argument I can think of against it is that this government is so inefficient they are bound to bugger it up, but one reason they are so inefficient is that the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing, some unifying mechanism would improve this. If other countries can do it and save money and be more efficient at the same time , it can be done without anyone loosing any notional freedoms.

Well I lived in a country where we had to have an I D card on us at all times It also had my finger print and blood group on it which was taken when I first entered the country
I kept it in my purse at all times but never ever had to produce it I never thought about it it was just something you did and part of my life
I guess had I have had an accident and been unconscious it could have been helpful knowing what blood to give me or if I had the bad luck to suffer amnesia or dementia I could be more easily found

Certainly ID cards would prevent a lot of identity theft and fraud.

How?

(I learnt this as an assertiveness technique many moons ago. How am I doing? 😉)

Redhead that made me smile. We never see a police officer here either. I would prefer that we did occasionally, but it never happens.

Well perhaps it wouldn’t volver. I thought if anything was checked in a business that all the ID cards would be checked, but maybe not. Certainly ID cards would prevent a lot of identity theft and fraud.

We’ve got the Covid passport because we needed it to travel abroad. We’ve travelled abroad a number of times during the pandemic, when it was allowed of course. We couldn’t travel to some countries without the Covid passport. The need to show the Covid passport does seem to have passed now though because when we travel to New Zealand later this month we do not need to prove we’ve been vaccinated.

I did briefly download the app that contacted you if you were near someone who subsequently tested positive for Covid, but so many people were being pinged and had to isolate for ten days, most of them apparently never going on to test positive, rapidly made me decide to delete it.

I wouldn't be bothered if we had to have ID cards. I also am not really bothered about CCTV I don't feel my freedom is threatened.
My phone timeline records my movements the technology does not worry me. As for the police stopping individuals randomly on the streets. If you have police patrols where you live I consider you very fortunate. They do not exist here and have not for years.

I was never keen on carrying ID ,if you have any doubts watch The Last Enemy a really interesting film that shows how someones whole life can be wiped clean if they dont conform to what the establishment wants
How could you prove who you are in that situation?
,
Its scary and all too believable

And it would make it much more difficult for people to work under the radar

How?

An ID card is a compulsory document that a government insists you carry at all times. You have to produce it whenever asked and to take part in the national life of the country.

It's not a driving licence, library card or swipe card to get into your work. It's a whole different ballgame.

Incidentally, I never had a covid passport and I never had that app that beeped when you were close to someone who had tested positive. (Or whatever it did...)

Being in business and often needing to transfer money abroad I sometimes have to prove my ID when I register for services. As I dont drive I will have to spend best part of £100 for a new passport when the old one expires. Even though I have no intention of travellling again. An ID card would save me a lot of hassle.

Just thinking about the data held by government on us reminded me about my parents deaths. We used the Tell Us Once service after both their deaths. It saves a lot of time and effort at a difficult time, but the service informs pretty much everyone, everyone that’s official that is, that the person has died. It’s convenient for the bereaved, but the point is, that the service can only work because so much information is held on each of us by officialdom.
I don’t have a problem with ID cards. Since they are not obligatory I’d be happy to partake in such a scheme if it were available just on a voluntary basis. I have a passport with all my information on it, what’s the difference? I know what will be said, that no one has the right to demand who you are if you are simply walking down the street. I don’t think it would turn us into a police state anymore than other western democracies are police states but they do have an ID card scheme. And it would make it much more difficult for people to work under the radar.

I have often worked in buildings where a swipe card was needed to gain entry.

Are there any countries that do have this sort of identity card?

I don't know

Is it literally to prove you are a UK citizen?

I often think it would be handy to carry a card that holds your blood type and medical needs as well as your wishes when it comes to DNR or organ donation.

I suppose it could also be used to prevent some crimes if it tracked location pr it was needed to gain access to buildings

But I don't know how carrying one would be enforced and I am very sure fake or cloned cards would soon exist