The case against ID cards

Perhaps Migrants are more likely to come to the UK where there are no ID cards rather than places like France where they do have ID cards.
certainly a preferable option for some people. N'est pas?

so have I many, many years ago. I have a weird recurring dream about being lost in Blackpool. God knows what triggers those...lack of ID maybe

I have not. 🤣

Been to the Ballroom though 😉

Have you ever lived in Blackpool?

Most of Europe has ID cards, so has Australia.

Australia doesn't have id cards.

I've lived there as well

maddyone

Doodledog Probate will accept an out of date passport, but only after a bit of a verbal tussle. However they insist it’s actually sent to them whereas they accept a photocopy of a live passport. They will accept a driving licence so long as it has photo ID on it. My driving license is still the old paper one, but I had the passport. My sister doesn’t have a a driving license at all. They also need other documents but the discussion here is about the ID needed by the executors, rather than the deceased person.

Thanks. I might embellish the tale and tell him he needs a full passport and new license too 😈.

Seriously - it’s a bugbear of mine. Why a responsible adult has no valid form of ID is beyond me. Fair enough to be against ID cards, but everyone should have something surely? His Costco and Nectar cards are never going to help him get out of a crisis. I assume he thinks that I will do whatever it is for him 😬

Yes, that might be the case.

Mamie

Baggs do you not think (for example) that people of colour who are constantly stopped and searched by the police without due reason are not already suffering an attack on their liberties?
Might life be easier for them if they had an identity card to immediately prove their identity, nationality and rights to residence?

Yes absolutely , to this comment.

fushia

I agree with Volver, 100% No to ID cards, I will fight tooth and nail to oppose these. However, sadly I think we are already heading down the slippery slope. This has been exasperated by covid passes etc. Right minded people need to make their voices heard loud and clear. Read up about the control the Chinese dictatorship has over the ordinary people it's terrifying. So, those who don't mind...be careful what you wish for, if not for yourselves then your children and grandchildren.

Most of Europe has ID cards, so has Australia.
They seem to manage well.
China will be a problem perhaps, but nothing to do with ID cards in Europe.
I understand why a few on this thread do not want one, and am sure everyone else understands too, but that doesn’t mean having to agree with them.

JackyB

halfpint1

I have one to live in France. Been here over 30 years and I've never yet been asked by a Gendarme to produce it, it lives in a drawer in the house. I use my driving licence if needed at la poste. Not a problem as far as I'm concerned

Same here. You are obliged here in Germany to carry identification at all times, and since I took German nationality I've had an ID card - much more compact than having to cart my passport around with me all the time.

I haven't had to show it to anyone who is not an official.

I don't know what the fuss is about.

Am not fussed either way, as so many other countries have them it may be brought in here at some point.
It seems practical.

Doodledog Probate will accept an out of date passport, but only after a bit of a verbal tussle. However they insist it’s actually sent to them whereas they accept a photocopy of a live passport. They will accept a driving licence so long as it has photo ID on it. My driving license is still the old paper one, but I had the passport. My sister doesn’t have a a driving license at all. They also need other documents but the discussion here is about the ID needed by the executors, rather than the deceased person.

I did have an incident when I lived in Australia, when I was breathalysed just for having chosen to drive down a particular urban street. Not because I as driving erratically (which I wasn't), not because I smelt of alcohol ...
I remember in Alice Springs not being able to buy petrol without a passport nor being able to buy from the bottle shop without one either.
I don't know which one is the most important but I had the last laugh on my family because I was always carrying my passport with me.

I'm going to tell Mr Dog that, maddyone. His mum is 97, and when the worst happens he will have no way of proving who he is unless they accept an out of date passport.

He is so stubborn about it, and I really don't understand why. If ever we needed to leave the country suddenly, I'd be on my own. It's infuriating.

Probate require ID. I have a live passport and so a photocopy was acceptable along with a paper bank statement or utilities bill with my address on it to prove my identity. However, my sister was another matter. She doesn’t have a driving license and her passport is out of date. They agreed to accept the passport but it had to be physically sent to them, along with a bank statement or utilities bill with her address on it. Without a driving license license and had she disposed of her out of date passport, it would have been difficult to prove her identity.

Many of whom will not have passport or driving licence.

Yes Baggs lots of statistical evidence of disproportionate searching of young BAME men by police.

Letters to the Guardian arguing against ID cards

The Germans have to provide their ID card anytime an official asks for it and there are large fines if they don't. Somehow they manage to live their lives without feeling they have lost their freedoms. Similarly with Spain, Belgium, Luxembourg, Malta, Poland and Romania. Somehow the advantages of being to quickly identify criminals and illegal immigrants aren't deemed to be good enough reasons but then we moan like hell that the police aren't doing their job.

I do think a lot of police forces need to improve their game, btw. Some of their recent nonsense and time-wasting has been disgraceful. But that's a wider issue.

As soon as I see or hear anyone using the words 'right minded' I discount their opinion. Who is to say what is 'right mindedness', or ' right thinking'?

Mamie

Baggs do you not think (for example) that people of colour who are constantly stopped and searched by the police without due reason are not already suffering an attack on their liberties?
Might life be easier for them if they had an identity card to immediately prove their identity, nationality and rights to residence?

Are the same people "constantly stopped and searched"?

I don't think police stop and search powers are always abuses of power. Without knowing all the details of stops and searches I cannot decide whether all such are suffering attacks on their liberty but yes, I agree that is probably the case sometimes. And obviously that is a bad thing, as the Windrush scandal showed.

And, yes, it's possbile that an ID card would help in some cases but would a passport or driving licence not do the same? What has happened/is happening about the Windrush victims by way of government apologies and compensation? Just by the way.

UK obviously no longer EU / EEA.

It seems that the only EU / EEA countries without ID cards are UK, Ireland, Iceland and Denmark.

I agree with Volver, 100% No to ID cards, I will fight tooth and nail to oppose these. However, sadly I think we are already heading down the slippery slope. This has been exasperated by covid passes etc. Right minded people need to make their voices heard loud and clear. Read up about the control the Chinese dictatorship has over the ordinary people it's terrifying. So, those who don't mind...be careful what you wish for, if not for yourselves then your children and grandchildren.

Baggs do you not think (for example) that people of colour who are constantly stopped and searched by the police without due reason are not already suffering an attack on their liberties?
Might life be easier for them if they had an identity card to immediately prove their identity, nationality and rights to residence?