Fuel poverty

Ailsa and people in your position, get an appointment at either Age Concern or Citizens advice, you are not getting correct money and your fuel must be wrong, donut sooner rather than later, you will need proof if your pension either bank statements or a letter. Best of luck.

notgran

Whitewavemark2

Gordon Brown

Fuel poverty is likely to double between now and April
◾️Two thirds of the country will be in fuel poverty from April
◾️70% of pensioners
◾️96% of lone-parent families with 2 or more kids
◾️over 85% of all couples with 3 or more kids.

Does he give the evidence to support that statement? If not then anybody could say anything. Being a former PM and Chancellor of the Exchequer who never won a GE and some say destroyed the economy and who since leaving politics has just written books doesn't give any credence to his statement as far as I'm concerned.

According to the article in The Guardian, Gordon Brown is basing his forecast on figures from The Resolution Foundation. It is an interesting article, and maybe you would give him more credence if you read it notgran.

I certainly dont feel in poverty of any kind.
I feel I am comfortably off.
Far from my childhood during the war when we put overcoats on our bed to keep warm.
I was born before WW2 and knew then what real poverty was.
However I realise there are thousands still not having enough income to both heat and eat and I feel so sorry for them.

annsixty

I am an OAP, just working out the simple logic of the statement I am certainly in fuel poverty
My monthly DD is £302, how I wish my pension was £3000.
Where am I going wrong or misunderstanding?

annsixty You're not wrong or misunderstanding.

Apart from winter being cold and home energy use increasing, measuring fuel poverty is not exact - incomes vary. Percentage of income spent on all home energy also varies by household.

More obvious very unpleasant news people can do nothing about.

Doodledog

Whitewavemark2

Doodledog

If you knew your politicians, you would know that Brown is scrupulous in his use of statistics etc.

Yes, I agree. He definitely has integrity. That is why I am questioning the context. It just doesn't stack up to me.

Have a look at the data .

Did you read my post above? Why would couples with 3 school-age children who are earning 2 salaries and are all out of the house at school/work all day be more likely to be in fuel poverty than a couple with one child who is at home all day with a parent on maternity leave with commensurate drop in salary?

I’m sorry I didn’t see your post.

Well, I’m afraid I can’t answer your question without looking at and analysing the data.

You know I walk the dog every morning in our rather lovely local park, and in doing so have got friendly with lots of folk as we stroll around together.

Today I was strolling around with one of the ladies and it was miserable, dark damp and very chilly. Talk turned to the cost of fuel. She said that she was finding it very difficult to manage and only put her heating on when she got so cold she couldn’t think straight. Looking at her, her coat was thin and one she wears most of the year and entirely unsuitable for the temperature. I felt so sorry for her and uncomfortable strolling around in my new winter puffa. Her little dachshund came to live with her because her sister died, and she sees the dog as a bit of her beloved sister.

Up to this year, she wasn’t well off but managing, and could keep warm at home.

Everything has now changed for her.

How many people are in this position?

It is dreadful.

I am an OAP, just working out the simple logic of the statement I am certainly in fuel poverty
My monthly DD is £302, how I wish my pension was £3000.
Where am I going wrong or misunderstanding?

Whitewavemark2

Doodledog

If you knew your politicians, you would know that Brown is scrupulous in his use of statistics etc.

Yes, I agree. He definitely has integrity. That is why I am questioning the context. It just doesn't stack up to me.

Have a look at the data .

Did you read my post above? Why would couples with 3 school-age children who are earning 2 salaries and are all out of the house at school/work all day be more likely to be in fuel poverty than a couple with one child who is at home all day with a parent on maternity leave with commensurate drop in salary?

kircubbin2000

In the old days we were more prepared for hardship.As a child we had no electric, plumbing or transport but we kept chickens, grew veg and gathered wood for the fire. I do remember spending a lot of time ill in bed though.

And further back we lived in wattle and daub houses without chimneys and were entirely reliant on the vagaries of the weather to eat.

It is called progress.

Why should we be regressing?

Doodledog

*If you knew your politicians, you would know that Brown is scrupulous in his use of statistics etc.*

Yes, I agree. He definitely has integrity. That is why I am questioning the context. It just doesn't stack up to me.

Have a look at the data .

In the old days we were more prepared for hardship.As a child we had no electric, plumbing or transport but we kept chickens, grew veg and gathered wood for the fire. I do remember spending a lot of time ill in bed though.

If you knew your politicians, you would know that Brown is scrupulous in his use of statistics etc.

Yes, I agree. He definitely has integrity. That is why I am questioning the context. It just doesn't stack up to me.

DaisyAnne

I have a feeling the world is going mad Whitewave. Why, when the rest of the world applauds GB for saving the international economy, do a handful of people in this, his own country, still spout the old inaccurate (to be polite) memes?

Yes.

You know I’ve been watching the new psychological game “Traitors” and how people are so easily led by the herd instinct. They simply don’t think for themselves, and are prepared to follow quite uncritically those with the loudest voice.

That is exactly what happens to the voter. They believe so much rubbish produced in the media, we must all know folk whose opinion is taken from the headlines and who vote accordingly.

I have a feeling the world is going mad Whitewave. Why, when the rest of the world applauds GB for saving the international economy, do a handful of people in this, his own country, still spout the old inaccurate (to be polite) memes?

notgran

Whitewavemark2

Gordon Brown

Fuel poverty is likely to double between now and April
◾️Two thirds of the country will be in fuel poverty from April
◾️70% of pensioners
◾️96% of lone-parent families with 2 or more kids
◾️over 85% of all couples with 3 or more kids.

Does he give the evidence to support that statement? If not then anybody could say anything. Being a former PM and Chancellor of the Exchequer who never won a GE and some say destroyed the economy and who since leaving politics has just written books doesn't give any credence to his statement as far as I'm concerned.

Brown is using government produced statistics from the Department of Business, Energy and industrial strategy.

It is based on the Low income, Low energy efficiency indicator.
LILEE.

If you knew your politicians, you would know that Brown is scrupulous in his use of statistics etc.

I think we've just got used to our house being cold - at least by other people's standards. My daughter paid a visit during the week and the first thing she said was 'it's freezing in here!' We put our log burner on at night, so the living room is warm, but you do notice the difference when you go to any other room.

Fuel poverty is guaranteed to rise as we know that prices will go up. Unless the government privatises the fuel companies or caps the profits that can be given to shareholders, that is a given; and inflation, higher mortgage rates, rent increases and the cost of food will make things worse.

What I don't understand is how those figures have been arrived at with such specificity. Why do couples with 3 or more children earn less or spend more on fuel? I understand that there will be more washing of clothes and children than for couples with smaller families, but surely everything else will even out? 85% seems high, when many of them will have two salaries and be at work all day. Someone with one baby who is on maternity leave and needs the heating on to keep the baby warm is going to use more than parents of school-age children, surely, and be more likely to be on a reduced salary.

If the figures take into account other spending (eg buying food, clothes, toys etc for larger families) then we aren't really talking about food poverty, but about poverty in general. Yes, the cost of fuel exacerbates it, but figures like this have to stand up to scrutiny, and if I can see holes in them so will everyone else. I struggle to believe that Gordon Brown would be so slapdash - in what context were they produced?

Whitewavemark2

Gordon Brown

Fuel poverty is likely to double between now and April
◾️Two thirds of the country will be in fuel poverty from April
◾️70% of pensioners
◾️96% of lone-parent families with 2 or more kids
◾️over 85% of all couples with 3 or more kids.

Does he give the evidence to support that statement? If not then anybody could say anything. Being a former PM and Chancellor of the Exchequer who never won a GE and some say destroyed the economy and who since leaving politics has just written books doesn't give any credence to his statement as far as I'm concerned.

Gordon Brown

Fuel poverty is likely to double between now and April
◾️Two thirds of the country will be in fuel poverty from April
◾️70% of pensioners
◾️96% of lone-parent families with 2 or more kids
◾️over 85% of all couples with 3 or more kids.

JaneJudge

and if you want comparison to the old days, our families were miners. Our houses were never cold as we had a coal allowance

Jane, I was only thinking about this earlier today.
My dad's family were miners too and they always had warm houses. And most used to heat the water from the fire.

Sandytoes

According to the 10% rule we are definitely in fuel poverty . However we have no rent or mortgage to pay so with careful budgeting we are managing our bills including our fuel payments .
Exactly as Doodledog said , it is relative to income . An income of 5k per month and fuel costs of £505 shouldnt be classed as poverty on any scale. These type of " blanket " rules minimise the hardship of those in real poverty.

I agree. It's a fairly meaningless measure.

growstuff

DaisyAnne

growstuff

Just noticed from a previous post that you're already receiving Pension Credit, so you should already have an income of £182.60 a week.

Check that you're also receiving all the extra help available to those in receipt of Pension Credit.

I don't think Ailsa is getting Pension Credit growstuff. I can't see it in her post. Were you replying to someone else?

It was on another thread about receiving some money.

Thank you!

According to the 10% rule we are definitely in fuel poverty . However we have no rent or mortgage to pay so with careful budgeting we are managing our bills including our fuel payments .
Exactly as Doodledog said , it is relative to income . An income of 5k per month and fuel costs of £505 shouldnt be classed as poverty on any scale. These type of " blanket " rules minimise the hardship of those in real poverty.

TillyTrotter

Thank you for clarifying growstuff .

Sorry! I made a mistake. The total income of somebody in receipt of Pension Credit is at least 11,045.20. That means that the fuel bill should be below 10%.

Ailsa43 Unless your house/flat is very energy inefficient and/or you live in a mansion, it seems that Shell is charging you too much. A figure of about £200pm would be more realistic. You really need to check with them whether you're building up a huge credit. Energy companies have recently been criticised by Ofgem for allowing customers to build up an excessive credit. They, of course, are earning interest on the excess.

I would suggest, as others have, that you contact Citizens Advice Bureau. They can do a benefit check for you and can also advocate on your behalf to energy companies.