JK Rowling putting her money where her mouth is

Well done JK Rowling for giving support for so many women.

The statutory declaration doesn’t have any legal force, does it?

I mean, in an unspecified amount of time they can retract that declaration and de-transition. And then declare again. And retract again.

Which is ok, as long as female rights are protected from the consequences of free gender switching.

The bill hasn’t been thought through as to possible outcomes and how to prevent or deal with them. It s a bad bill formed by individual opinions and prejudices rather than a rationally thought out major change to legislation.

Glorianny

Doodledog

But that's the thing, Allsorts. The new legislation will allow anyone to say they are a woman, and the argument will be that some women look 'masculine', so might not be allowed into female spaces, so therefore the answer is to allow men in. It makes no sense to me, but that's what we keep getting told.

I think that men who wear beards and colonise women's spaces are doing it as a power game. I have some sympathy with the ones who do their best to look like women; but not the ones who know they can get away with just saying it, so take advantage. They really seem to be sticking two fingers up at womankind.

Let's be clear about what is proposed. There is a legal process and the gender change is for life. It is not a license to change gender on a whim.
^The bill would lower the age people can legally change gender from 18 to 16, would not require a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, would reduce the waiting time from two years to six months, and would require applicants to make a statutory declaration that they wished to remain in their acquired gender for life^

And of course, nobody would ever lie when making such a declaration, would they, Glorianny? I see that an amendment is being suggested that would prevent anyone awaiting trial for rape from trying to identify as a woman. It is being proposed by an MSP who was raped as a child.

Doodledog

But that's the thing, Allsorts. The new legislation will allow anyone to say they are a woman, and the argument will be that some women look 'masculine', so might not be allowed into female spaces, so therefore the answer is to allow men in. It makes no sense to me, but that's what we keep getting told.

I think that men who wear beards and colonise women's spaces are doing it as a power game. I have some sympathy with the ones who do their best to look like women; but not the ones who know they can get away with just saying it, so take advantage. They really seem to be sticking two fingers up at womankind.

Let's be clear about what is proposed. There is a legal process and the gender change is for life. It is not a license to change gender on a whim.
The bill would lower the age people can legally change gender from 18 to 16, would not require a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, would reduce the waiting time from two years to six months, and would require applicants to make a statutory declaration that they wished to remain in their acquired gender for life

Allsorts

Why did you post the mans face Far North, if he is an abuser of women, he is hardly likely to gain admittance to a womens safe place.

.

You correctly identified that person as a man, Allsorts so why should he gain access to a women's refuge at all, as client or staff?

How would anyone know if he has been an abuser? Even if he has a security check, to become staff, it will show nothing unless he has a conviction.

Would you be happy to accept that person as a woman, in a refuge or counseling group for women who have experienced sexual violence?

Men who become aggressive about their wish for men to be accepted as women don't inspire confidence that all will go well with doing so.

Why is it seen as unreasonable for women who have experienced sexual violence to want a respite from having any men around, however harmless they might be? (Since it's impossible to know if any specific man is harmless or not.)

Looking at the face of 'Cathy Brennan' complete with very bushy eyebrows, beard and moustache (and, presumably, male genitalia) I am wondering how any sane person can insist that he - 'Cathy' - must be allowed to share a woman's, or young girl's, safe space.

However Cathy 'identifies' - Cathy is a man.

Is the world going mad?

No worries- it’s worth saying twice

People who think we are obsessed with trans issues and drone on about them too much might not realise the reality of the situation, as it’s so far from anything we’ve lived through before, but it’s happening in plain sight without people noticing.

SorryDoodledog your post wasn't showing for me, which basically said the same thing.

Allsorts the problem is that anyone who self-identifies as a woman expects to have admission even to 'woman only spaces' and any refusal is seen as transphobic. They don't need to shave their beards, take cross sex hormones, have surgery, ...just utter the magic words 'I am a woman' and Bob's your uncle, you are a woman and permitted to the very few special spaces advantages accorded to women.

But that's the thing, Allsorts. The new legislation will allow anyone to say they are a woman, and the argument will be that some women look 'masculine', so might not be allowed into female spaces, so therefore the answer is to allow men in. It makes no sense to me, but that's what we keep getting told.

I think that men who wear beards and colonise women's spaces are doing it as a power game. I have some sympathy with the ones who do their best to look like women; but not the ones who know they can get away with just saying it, so take advantage. They really seem to be sticking two fingers up at womankind.

Why did you post the mans face Far North, if he is an abuser of women, he is hardly likely to gain admittance to a womens safe place.

Well done JKR, women need a safe haven. I think she gas taken a lot of abuse by speaking the truth and stood up to the bullies.

Rosie51

^They are simply repeating the pattern of male aggression towards, and oppression of, women.^
This is the absolute crux of the situation. Some men cannot abide that women can have anything that's just for them exclusively. To be told they may not be present in a space outrages their elevated sense of their own importance. It's strange that we rarely see any evidence of this behaviour pattern from transmen, maybe because they've been socialised as female and largely retain that.
The transwoman India Willoughby was tweeting how wonderful it was that the BBC ran an article about a home exclusively for transgender people who could feel safe there, but criticised JKR for being transphobic with her new venture. Doesn't even have the awareness to recognise their own hypocrisy.

The transwoman India Willoughby was tweeting how wonderful it was that the BBC ran an article about a home exclusively for transgender people who could feel safe there, but criticised JKR for being transphobic with her new venture. Doesn't even have the awareness to recognise their own hypocrisy.

I didn't know that. Unbelievable. But then maybe not. They see themselves as persecuted, and to them, natal women are the persecutors.

This will rage on and on. But I will never accept that a TW can have the same life experiences as a woman. They may be vilified for not conforming to the stereotype of their male sex, and for that I would support them in their fight to live life on their own terms. But that's where the support ends.

They are simply repeating the pattern of male aggression towards, and oppression of, women.
This is the absolute crux of the situation. Some men cannot abide that women can have anything that's just for them exclusively. To be told they may not be present in a space outrages their elevated sense of their own importance. It's strange that we rarely see any evidence of this behaviour pattern from transmen, maybe because they've been socialised as female and largely retain that.
The transwoman India Willoughby was tweeting how wonderful it was that the BBC ran an article about a home exclusively for transgender people who could feel safe there, but criticised JKR for being transphobic with her new venture. Doesn't even have the awareness to recognise their own hypocrisy.

FarNorth

One of the fragile, oppressed, outraged transwomen . (angry man)

Why can't TW accept that an anatomical woman who has been raped by a man might want therapeutic counselling from another anatomical woman? Exactly why is it transphobic?

Last time I had an 'intimate' exam by a male doctor - he asked me if I'd like a female nurse present during the process. I was given a choice like it was the most natural thing to pose the question.

A TW could be a lovely person, I'm sure many are, like all human beings, they vary. But that's not the point. A self-identifying TW with a male body has not had the same life experiences as me. And I have not had theirs. As much as they might 'identify' with women, they are not women, they are trans women, and there is a difference.

And when they refer to women like me as TERFS sometimes with threats of violence; when they insist on inserting themselves in women's safe spaces; when they attempt to shut down debate (and why is debate wrong - we debate issues of life and death, why not gender?); when they can pick and choose whether to identify as a woman on any given occasion... what are they doing?

They are simply repeating the pattern of male aggression towards, and oppression of, women.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202212/medium-645665-screenshot-20221213-175931.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202212/medium-800096-screenshot-20221213-175855.png

One of the fragile, oppressed, outraged transwomen . (angry man)

Love59 I'm so sorry that your son is going through this.

Has he had legal advice? He needs to get his access to his children formalised by the family courts to secure his parental rights. Also coercive control which is often accompanied by emotional abuse is now recognised by law as an offence so again, he needs professional advice.

Your son's done really well leaving her, that takes courage and a great deal of resolve so now he needs to harness both to ensure that she doesn't keep him from his children .

Newspaper article :

www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/jk-rowling-opens-beiras-place-woman-only-sexual-violence-support-service-in-edinburgh-3950311

The centre says : "A spokesperson for Beira’s Place said: “We believe that women deserve to have certainty that, in using our services, they will not encounter anyone who is male. Where appropriate, we will refer men or individuals identifying as trans women to other appropriate services”."

Rape Crisis Scotland and Scottish Women's Aid have repeatedly said publicly that transwomen are welcome in their services so there should be no problem in Beira's Place referring them on.

Yet already we see men filled with viciousness towards the women doing this.

.

Some years ago, JKR, picked up and rehomed a greyhound. The Charity asked her for £70 to cover their costs. She wrote them a cheque for £5000. A decent woman.

Bridie22

We don't know if they had the right credentials though...hence, mind games on JKR thread.

... and getting back to the topic.

I think JKR is very brave as well as philanthropic. She's going to get some flak for this. She's already experienced death-threats for simply voicing her opinions.

Now she's followed through with action. I can imagine this service will be a blessed relief to many women.

Love59

I’m feeling desperate…my son is being emotionally abused by his wife. I’m sure she has NPD. He’s managed to leave her but he’s a wreck. Won’t stand up to her because petrified that she’ll muck up his access. Unfortunately nothing is formalised yet. It’s an “emperor’s new clothes” situ with no-one saying anything. Advice greatly appreciated

Please post on the forum dealing with "Relationships" - your problem seems desperate, as you say.

You need others who've quite possibly experienced the difficulties you're facing to give advice. I hope you get some help.

Love59

I’m feeling desperate…my son is being emotionally abused by his wife. I’m sure she has NPD. He’s managed to leave her but he’s a wreck. Won’t stand up to her because petrified that she’ll muck up his access. Unfortunately nothing is formalised yet. It’s an “emperor’s new clothes” situ with no-one saying anything. Advice greatly appreciated

I'm sorry to hear that Love59.
Perhaps he needs advice from a solicitor.

It might be a good idea to start a separate thread as your post could get lost on this thread.

Love59

I’m feeling desperate…my son is being emotionally abused by his wife. I’m sure she has NPD. He’s managed to leave her but he’s a wreck. Won’t stand up to her because petrified that she’ll muck up his access. Unfortunately nothing is formalised yet. It’s an “emperor’s new clothes” situ with no-one saying anything. Advice greatly appreciated

I'm sorry to hear this. Maybe it would be a good idea for your son to get some counselling to help him navigate this difficult time. A trip to the doctors would point him in the right direction if he needs specialist abuse support.

Probably best not to get too involved yourself with ideas about what might be her problem and just listen and support, these things can backfire if they reunite.

Just focus on getting your son some professional help to handle this and keep himself safe

I’m feeling desperate…my son is being emotionally abused by his wife. I’m sure she has NPD. He’s managed to leave her but he’s a wreck. Won’t stand up to her because petrified that she’ll muck up his access. Unfortunately nothing is formalised yet. It’s an “emperor’s new clothes” situ with no-one saying anything. Advice greatly appreciated