She's opened and is fully funding a place for female victims of sexual violence. It's called Beira's place (Beira is Scottish goddess of the darkness ie winter). They'll provide whatever support and help that these women actually need. JK's great!
LankyDolly so you can't be a male to female trans person unless you take female hormones,
This image is of Alex Drummond, a 'lesbian' trans psychotherapist who maintains they're 'broadening the bandwidth of being a woman' who will never have surgery or take hormones, as stated in an interview. So are you telling Alex he remains a man and not the woman he claims?
I’ll just remind Lankydolly that the damage done to the trans community by the small group of men vociferously claiming female rights is what is causing most problems.
The usual claims of “you’ve received intimate care from men” once again ignores the fact that such men are not falsely claiming to be women.
And, no matter what drugs you take, what body part you have added or removed you can’t change sex.
Another one, Emilia Decaudin a US politician.
His attempt to normalise the bulge was years ahead of Dylan Mulvaney .
Photos? If you looked at the video, you'd see that none of the men there are making a serious attempt to present themselves as women. They are caricatures.
Just like Daniel Muscato (in red).
This other person, Rosemary Times, does dress more nicely but likes to expose himself in public places.
(He has photos exposing much more than this but has now removed them from Flickr)
People like these invite comment .
Lankydolly your post is incredibly confusing because of the way you use the words 'sex' and 'gender' and 'trans man'.
I have no problem with male medical staff, although there were none when I gave birth other than a very brief appearance of a male doctor.
What would be alarming is an apparent female who turns out to be male. Lots of little things might give him away.
Of course, while working in a labour ward the usual 'feminine' trappings wouldn't be there so there'd likely be no mistake.
That wouldn't necessarily be the case with home care, for instance.
The situation is as Doodledog says.
Trans people should be honest about their sex, however they present themselves, rather than claim to be the opposite sex, imo.
What exactly is my 'birth gender' which you mention ?
I have a sex, which was observed and recorded at my birth.
I don't associate a 'gender' with it.
Sorry, LankyDolly, but it's not me whose knowledge is lacking. The vast majority of people who identify as 'trans' have no surgery whatsoever.
This is part of the problem. Nobody is able to pin down what words mean any more - it's all about how you 'feel', and what you see as 'authentic', regardless of truth. Anyone can identify as anything, and those who believe in magic will say that that identification is all it takes. TWAW (trans women are women) means that they can access female spaces without any surgery or female hormones. This is why fact-based feminists are concerned. It has nothing to do with being 'kind' or prejudice. It is because there are obvious risks with having men in female spaces - why do you think we got them in the first place?
Oh dear, if only this was just a matter of opinion it would be easier to ignore, but the lack of knowledge of trans people by some of the comments here is heartbreaking. Doodledog - you state that trans men have male hormones, genitals, gametes etc. Well, they're not trans men. Trans means "transexual" - changing sex, so you can't be a male to female trans person unless you take female hormones, and you can't even get any help on the NHS unless you've lived as your preferred gender for 2 years. That's if there's not a waiting list so long you can't even get on the 14 month waiting list (happened to a young friend of mine). I'm afraid it must be "the media" who are responsible for giving people the idea that it's easy, or even encouraged, to change gender.
Are people getting confused with transvestites? These are men who dress as women, but are physically male, many of them heterosexual.
FarNorth, you receive intimate care from men - especially if you've had children - there are many male doctors and nurses.
As for sharing photos of trans men and saying they look masculine, that's just spiteful. When a man has gone through puberty his bone structure changes permanently. No amount of female hormones will alter that. However, if it stops someone being desperately unhappy about their gender (7 times more likely to commit suicide than cis people), to do the best they can in the circumstances, great. If you want to see what access to unlimited treatment and surgery looks like look at Caitlyn Jenner or Monroe Bergdorff.
Just be thankful if you are happy in your birth gender and look beyond the Daily Mail and other sensationalising sources. Be kind.
As a consolation, here's one I just came across.
Much more restrained than the transwomen in the video but clearly male and really not a woman.
Oh. No idea why that's happening.
I thought it wasn't working for me, just now, but it eventually did start.
That link isn't working for me, FN. It may be my settings though, as it is taking me to something about Phil Mitchell getting an award and then to something about poets and artists 
A little video of transwomen.
"Transgender means these men are the same as ur mum, sister, wife, daughter.
Transgender says these men can share single sex spaces with ur mum, sister, wife, daughter.
Transgender mean these men can give ur mum, sister, wife, daughter intimate care."👇🏾
mobile.twitter.com/JocastaMoney/status/1604077477902647296/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1604077477902647296¤tTweetUser=JocastaMoney
If it was your daughter, would you want her denied help?
I wouldn't want her to be helped to damage her body or her ongoing health, by use of hormones or / and surgery.
I would want her to have sensitive, psychological help to come to terms with her biological sex - regardless of how she wishes to present herself.
I live in Scotland and I am very concerned that the Scottish Government intends to bring forward a 'Conversion Therapy' Ban which will make any kind of help illegal except instant affirmation of a trans identity for anyone who mentions that they may be trans.
That is what I class as denial of help.
Nobody is saying that the fact that transwomen make up such a small number of people means that they should be excluded, and the comparisons with people with disabilities or suggestions of parallels with racism are tired and offensive tropes.
We are saying that because transwomen are few in number their needs should not be put ahead of those of women (who make up far greater numbers), and whatever the results of a tiny survey of one group of women affected by DV there are many other vulnerable women who do not want male-bodied people in their safe spaces, and many others who want to be assured that they, or their daughters, would have such safe spaces available to them if the need arose.
As for the 'determination to depict transwomen as men' - that is because they are. How do you define men? Adult human males, people with penises and people with male gametes and male hormones are men, whether they are depicted as such or not. That doesn't mean that they should be discriminated against or victimised. It means that they should be looked after by other men, and/or provide facilities of their own, instead of colonising ours. It was women who campaigned and fought for DV refuges, which used to be known as 'homes for battered women' - remember? Why don't transwomen do the same? That way, they can have shelter from abusive men when they need it, without frightened women having men in the female spaces they so desperately need.
And yes, I have met transwomen, transmen and non-binary people, and am aware that on the whole they have psychological needs that are difficult. I wish them no harm, but to borrow a phrase 'no woman is safe until we are all safe' and allowing any men into our safe spaces gives access to all of them, which is a danger to women, however non-threatening most transwomen may be.
Glorianny
I've posted this before. Yes it is a small study, but its findings are just as relevant as all the fear mongering and anti-trans posts on these threads. The inclusion of transwomen in women's services and refuges is not a problem for the majority of women using those services in the NE. So why do some posters keep insisting it will be? Don't they want to listen to the women using those services? Could it be that abused transwomen and abused natal women have more in common with each other than they have with anyone posting on these threads? And isn't that what intersectional feminism says?
www.ncl.ac.uk/mediav8/gps/files/One%20of%20the%20Lasses%20Report.pdf
Thank goodness for your comments, Glorianny. I'm very late to this party but am dismayed at the determination in so many threads to depict transwomen as men and as such to be regarded as, at best, out to take away ciswomen's services, or at worst, rapists. Please, people, think about it - have you met any transwomen? Do you know what a huge, battle transgender women face, not only to get any type of support but just to stay alive. All the typical transwoman wants is to "pass", i.e. be taken as a ciswoman to avoid the kind of suspicion and negativity seen on here and not to get raped or beaten up.
Would you say any other minority should be excluded because it's small? People with a rare physical disability? Someone from a small ethnic minority? Please try and find out more about trans people - you will feel happier because you will lose all the prejudice people like J K Rowling engender. And remember, lots of women transition to identifying as male. If it was your daughter, would you want her denied help? Would you be happy for cismen to resent her using male bathrooms, male refuges etc? I don't think so.
JK Rowling is quoted as saying: “The line that I have met in a couple of places is that there is no universal experience of womanhood.
If that is true - then what are trans women identifying with when they say they identify as women?
It appears that men want to define womanhood for us.
Of course there is a universal experience, the fact that it's nuanced is because a woman's experience will depend on factors like economic stability, religion, etc.
Remove those and I'm pretty sure the variables would be eclipsed by the similarities.
Of course that makes sense, FarNorth, but it is probably too obvious for some to cope with. Then, of course, they will tell you that it is too expensive to provide two lots of services and so of course it is women who have to move along to make room for the tiny, tiny minority, whether they feel comfortable doing so or not.
Scottish Women's Aid, and other similar organisations, which say 'transwomen are women' should stop claiming to be single-sex.
We keep being told that sex & gender are different things , so they should clarify that they are mixed-sex & single-gender.
Edinburgh Rape Crisis claims that transwomen are afraid to come to their service. Why?
Because one, or more, of the women survivors of sexual violence may object to male people being there?
Wouldn't you think the solution would be to provide services separately, given the tiny, tiny minority which transwomen are, rather than insist that women must accept male people as women?
Oops! I meant to say simply you can't re-educate those people. You might know, the one time I don't put it through preview, it gets garbled..
Exactly the right thing to do! Many celebrities go through either their own or another charity for a great deal of the money is wasted and doesn't go to those who actually need it. Her home will be able to accomplish much more than most, imo. As for retraining men, I think to the extent that men were made more aware of their power and misuse of it, we've probably maxed that out. I think a lot of the rape we are dealing with now is not coming from men who don't really understand. I think it's coming from men who don't give a damn. The only way to re-educate those guys is to put them in jail for a good amount of time, say on bread and water. An awful lot of rapes are perpetrated against women who would not be normal romantic targets. I'm talking about children and elderly women. You can't re-educate so we can do those people.
This is an article from Pink News on Beira's Place .
www.thepinknews.com/2022/12/12/jk-rowling-beiras-place-sex-abuse-trans-women/
JK Rowling has launched a rape and sexual assault crisis centre in Edinburgh which excludes trans women as both employees and service users.
Originally a townhouse, the centre is called Beira’s Place, named after the Scottish goddess of winter.
In an interview with anti-trans journalist Suzanne Moore, published via Substack, Rowling’s opening of Beira’s Place is framed around her opposition to trans rights.
Moore insists that “women standing up for women are now routinely considered transphobic”, and describes Rowling’s public status as having transformed “from unimpeachable Queen of Hogwarts to problematic, shunned iconoclast”.
JK Rowling is quoted as saying: “The line that I have met in a couple of places is that there is no universal experience of womanhood. Well, thereisa common experience: it’s being female. But if you remove that from any serious analysis, everything falls apart… No sex class: no activism.”
According to Moore, the need for a centre that excludes trans women was highlighted by the LGBTQ-inclusive, Edinburgh-based Rape Crisis, which she describes as “somewhat controversial”.
Moore claimed that Rape Crisis’s “stance” is that “survivors may need to be re-educated about trans rights as part of recovering from trauma”.
Moore correctly states that Rape Crisis is oversubscribed, and cannot meet the need of all survivors in the area. What she neglects to mention is that the barrage of criticism directed at Rape Crisis by so-called ‘gender-critical feminists’ has meant that some survivors are unlikely to access any support at all.
In a letter to its trans service users during Trans Awareness Week, Rape Crisis said: “Because of our work to make Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre more trans-inclusive, the transphobia directed at our centre has been very loud lately. Though the threats are mainly online, the impact has been felt by both our staff and our clients. Sadly, we’re hearing from some of you that you’re afraid to come to the centre in person.”
The centre added: “We want you to know that every part of you is welcome here. In a trans-prejudiced world, we know that many of you are not safe and able to express your gender how you’d like. Whatever your gender expression and however you present, you’ll never be asked to disclose your gender history, or to justify your right to our support. We’re here for you.”
JK Rowling’s service, on the other hand, will only serve, and only employ, cisgender women.
Under the Equality Act 2010, transgender people are protected from discrimination, but services are able to exclude trans people from single-sex spaces if this exclusion is a “proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim”.
However, it is unclear how Rowling and Beira’s Place plan to ascertain whether a service user is transgender, nor how they plan to filter out trans people during their hiring process.
With no sense of irony, Rowling told Moore: “I don’t like ideologies of any kind. I have never met an ideologue who wouldn’t suppress a little bit of truth… You pick your tribe, you chant the mantras, and you defend everything to the death. Even if logic has to be convoluted.”
Beira’s Place told PinkNews: “Beira’s Place is a women-only service. Section 212 of the Equality Act 2010 defines a woman as a ‘female of any age’ and Beira’s Place services are for women aged 16 and over. The service is offered in accordance with the Equality Act 2010, which permits the provision of single sex services and a single sex staffing policy in various situations where there’s a good reason for them.
“Many women subjected to men’s violence feel safer and fare better in women-only spaces, and wish to have support sessions with females only, and we exist to meet that need. We believe that women deserve to have certainty that, in using our services, they will not encounter anyone who is male.
“Where appropriate, we will refer we willrefer men orindividualsidentif
Rape Crisis Scotland said: “Rape crisis services across Scotland are experiencing huge demand for their services. This demand, combined with a lack of sustainable funding, is leading to some centres facing very difficult waiting lists.
“All 17 rape crisis centres which are part of the Rape Crisis Scotland network are subject to robust National Service Standards to ensure high quality support is available to survivors. In this demanding context, we of course welcome any new service which has rigorous safeguarding procedures in place and is staffed by highly trained professionals to support survivors of sexual violence.”
However, it added: “It is crucial that the life-saving support offered by rape crisis centres is available to trans and non-binary people.
“All rape crisis services in Scotland offer support to trans women and have done so for 15 years. There has not been a single incident of anyone abusing this.
“We continue to see the paths to equality for women and trans people are being deeply interconnected and dependent on shared efforts to dismantle systems of discrimination.”
JK Rowling declined to comment.
........ ................... ...............
Thanks Saetana, yes they are worthy of our compassion and support. We are willing to give it, but not to have our own rights and needs compromised. IF there was an either/or situation each group would be forced to choose themselves, but no one should be forced to make that choice.
I agree with what you're saying Doodledog. I don't hate anyone. Live and let live, I say. I will speak out when my own rights are threatened, though. People can live as they choose and do what they want, but what they don't get to do is dictate how other people live or censor their opinions. Unfortunately I have had people stop talking to me when their attempt to censor and control me has failed. I am sad to lose those people, but I am proud to have my own mind and be independant of attempts to control and coerce.
It's straight from the playbook, isn't it? Accusations of racism, homophobia (that one is deeply ironic given that Stonewall wants to change homosexuality to 'same gender attraction', so that heterosexual transwomen can cry 'transphobia' when lesbians reject their penis-based sexual advances) and being out of touch with the youth of today are the standard tropes.
I can't think of anyone I 'hate'. Now or ever. I don't see the point, and I certainly don't take against people for being different. The implication that anyone who doesn't buy into the trans agenda is some sort of hate-filled bigot is ludicrous.
OnwardandUpward
Trans people face many issues that we don't and that many of us wouldn't even think of or understand unless it was explained. They cannot know the trials of being a woman anymore than a woman can know the trials of being a transwoman- but they cannot be treated the same because they are not. Each need individual and specific support. Each should have equal rights, but not the same treatment.
Women suffer things because they are women, like periods, pregnancy, menopause, perimenopause etc. I'm sure there are many other things that I haven't thought of- but transwomen cannot suffer those things or have compassion for something they have not experienced (and never will). Women and trans women cannot and should not be lumped together as they both have a very different set of individual needs and issues.
I've given this a lot of thought, but there are so many differences between trans women and women. Me calling them transwomen acknowledges their transitional state between what they were born as and what they identify as- sadly they will never be one thing or the other, but remain in a transitionary state, having altered their bodies from what they were but never having full access to all the benefits (or trials and shared experiences) of their desired gender.
I genuinely feel sorry for them. Transmen having periods despite taking male hormones, living as men. Wearing mens clothes yet a female body and female problems- but we're saying they should be classed as men? When they're having female reproductive problems? It's messed up!
This - brilliantly put OnwardandUpward, I couldn't have said it better myself. I also feel intensely sorry for genuine trans people - they deserve our sympathy and support as they can never truly become the opposite sex, no matter what some would like to believe, its a biological impossibility.
Wyllow3
Thats an opinion of an article in twitter, its not the article.
Very very different, I really don't think we should rely on twitter!
www.independent.co.uk/voices/jk-rowling-trans-sexual-abuse-victims-women-b2244829.html
there is a video, but the article is behind a paywall.
Its possible to read the article if you sign up for a free account with the Independent. Quote:
"But by closing its doors to the trans community, in my view, it instead becomes a huge step backwards for equality and a monument to hate, instead of the valuable service it could have been. I’m sure I’ll get some pushback for saying this about a service designed to help women (which in either scenario, I have no doubt it will). But it’s like opening a whites-only orphanage; what, would you rather there not be an orphanage at all? What did orphans ever do to you?"
I find the comparison to racial discrimination to be highly offensive - and "monument to hate"? Don't make me laugh - this hyperbolic article is a waste of time, and unfortunately typical of the Independent's content.
Wyllow3
*Doodledog*, I feel it depends so much on individuals. We keep talking about "vulnerable women" as if all one group, no differences.
It assumes for example that all vulnerable women don't want anything to do with all men?
???
It says that vulnerable females-or actually any females, have the right to male free spaces in situations where they need them and that males should not be allowed to misappropriate them.
Why do TW not lobby for their own safe spaces instead of lying in in order to access female safe spaces? Too much like hard work I suppose.
I’m astonished that posters on here think it’s OK for some males to lie and cheat in a manner detrimental to females.
If you accept lying as an OK thing for men to do in this situation-where does it stop?
I wonder, do posters supporting this lying and cheating apply the same rules in their own lives?
Do they publicly declare that they approve of lying as they do on here in secret?
Do they teach that lying is OK?
Or is it just that they approve of males lying to get what they want?
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join the discussion, watch threads and lots more.
Register now »Already registered? Log in with:
Gransnet »Get our top conversations, latest advice, fantastic competitions, and more, straight to your inbox. Sign up to our daily newsletter here.
