should the government be ashamed

ruthiek

Sorry and I know I am about to castigated but I truly believe this a political fight to bring the government down. I see the nurses in Scotland hsve refused 8%

Perhaps the government should call the strikers bluff then and meet their demands.

Just as I am fascinated to know why people take what they consider to be poorly paid jobs with dreadful conditions in the first place!

Because when they took the jobs they weren't badly paid and the conditions were better?

Can you really not see that?

Also, you have a very skewed idea about the outcomes of strikes. Do you think improved working conditions came about because the employers were all altruistic good guys?

CoolCoco

They are just going to brazen it out and hope the public begin to turn on the strikers. I don't think that's going to happen, certainly not with the NHS staff. We are getting a below par service now and have been for several years. They need to get a grip or call an election.

I am fascinated to know what you think will be achieved by calling an election??? Just as I am fascinated to know why people take what they consider to be poorly paid jobs with dreadful conditions in the first place! I don’t pretend to know what the solution is but I do know strike action never achieves a successful or satisfactory long term solution for anyone.

The Tories are selfish , arrogant idiots and always have been. They have ruined this country and our beloved NHS.

NHS needs a complete overhaul it is not fit for purpose any more. Demand keeps rising. Not sure increasing salaries is the answer though - more about lack of parking and other basic terms and conditions. Higher salaries may help retention but not sure? Working for the current iteration of the NHS just seems about more than a pay increase.

grandtanteJE65

I honestly do not know why anyone would blame the present government: Sunak and his Cabinet have only been in power for a very short time. It is hardly their fault that the UK is in the state it is in, nor could they have been expected to wave a wand upon forming a government and undoing everything that has gone wrong in the previous three or four governments' time.

Nor is it fair, nor right to blame those who are out on strike. They have been forced to this desperate measure because their working conditions are poor and their salaries no longer anything like adequate to provide a decent living.

So who is to blame?

Many people, including all those with legitimate grounds for striking for not having done so years ago, when the problems started.

Executives in the NHS, post office, railways etc. etc. who could and should have either prevent the problems, or solved them long since.

The Unions that have obviously not protected the interests of their members.

The electorate that has put up with incompetent, lying or otherwise dishonest politicians for years.

And no doubt a great many other instances and institutions, but the above will do for a start.

You can’t be serious, surely? Are you actually saying that this is a new government when the Tories have been in power for 12 years?

When I started reading that post, I thought it was going to be ironic.

Sadly, not.

Gov found the money to give MP's a rise a while back, they always do

I honestly do not know why anyone would blame the present government: Sunak and his Cabinet have only been in power for a very short time. It is hardly their fault that the UK is in the state it is in, nor could they have been expected to wave a wand upon forming a government and undoing everything that has gone wrong in the previous three or four governments' time.

Nor is it fair, nor right to blame those who are out on strike. They have been forced to this desperate measure because their working conditions are poor and their salaries no longer anything like adequate to provide a decent living.

So who is to blame?

Many people, including all those with legitimate grounds for striking for not having done so years ago, when the problems started.

Executives in the NHS, post office, railways etc. etc. who could and should have either prevent the problems, or solved them long since.

The Unions that have obviously not protected the interests of their members.

The electorate that has put up with incompetent, lying or otherwise dishonest politicians for years.

And no doubt a great many other instances and institutions, but the above will do for a start.

I apologise for shouting but some posters on here need reminding that;

TRAIN DRIVERS ARE NOT ON STRIKE

THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ON UC ARE IN WORK.

and breathe......

Anneeba

Cambia businesses make money from people spending it. Give the lower paid more money and they will spend it, often locally. Give the top end more they squirrel it away or take it abroad. It's the opposite of the absolutely shown to not work 'Trickle down effect' so beloved by the right. Wonder why they're so fond of it 🤔

Absolutely true, Anneeba 👏👏👏

Nobody in the public sector actually makes money, so all the money to increase wages etc comes from the government who don’t make money either. Therefore all the wage rises etc will come from us out of our taxes and business taxes who actually do make some money thank goodness). This cannot be sustainable as the small percentages of business making the money cannot support the larger sector spending it!

You are absolutely, completely and utterly wrong, Cambia. In fact, the government is the only institution which can create (make) money. All the money in the country is money which has been created by the state government. The only money that hasn't been created by the state is any money coming from overseas investors or our exports. Which is a relatively small portion of the national wealth.

I suggest that anyone who disputes what I am saying has a read of the article about money creation in this Bank of England bulletin:

www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2014/quarterly-bulletin-2014-q1.pdf

There are very sound economic reasons why workers should have pay increases that keep abreast of inflation. The increases would only be inflationary if they were above inflation rate. The nurses' claim for 19%, though it would be just, as their pay has actually lost value in real terms over the past 12 years, isn't what they are expect to get, it is a starting point for negotiating. Start high and be prepared to come down.

Vettel...agree with your comment...

And today regulated rail fares are announced to rise by nearly 6% next year, the highest rise for about ten years. And of course other, non-regulated fares have no cap to their increases. Why do we have to pay more for a worse, failing rail service for which the government has overseen contracts for the past 12 years? Time to de-privatize it and run it as a public service, not a cash cow for mainly foreign investors who are only interested in their dividends. And the Tories have the nerve to say the fare increase is fair! No shame, naturally.

Cambia businesses make money from people spending it. Give the lower paid more money and they will spend it, often locally. Give the top end more they squirrel it away or take it abroad. It's the opposite of the absolutely shown to not work 'Trickle down effect' so beloved by the right. Wonder why they're so fond of it 🤔

ordinarygirl

No government of any colour can afford to pay 19%.what is annoying is the continuous statement that pay will not be discussed.only an idiot would bury their head in the sand.I wonder when the subject of pay for mps arrives, what the recommendation will be ?

If MPs are offered more then NHS workers there could be riots in the streets. That seems to be only thing to get the government to listen. It worked when Thatcher brought in the poll tax.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not advocating riots, but even the public who don't feel sympathy for NHS workers would surely not stand for MPs getting a higher percent rise. It would set a very dangerous precedent!

Nobody in the public sector actually makes money, so all the money to increase wages etc comes from the government who don’t make money either. Therefore all the wage rises etc will come from us out of our taxes and business taxes who actually do make some money thank goodness). This cannot be sustainable as the small percentages of business making the money cannot support the larger sector spending it!

Perhaps it would be more sensible for negotiations to include holidays, pensions, sickness days etc etc that the private sector receive in their pay package and convert some of this to wage rises.

A lot of the people striking (nurses excepted) are on fairly decent wages to begin with and the argument is because these haven’t risen in line with inflation but this is a chicken and egg situation as wage rises increase inflation.

Why for a start do all nurses needs degrees and the resultant higher wages? Why do we not have a layer of nursing staff trained on the job that can carry out basic nursing care as used to happen? To be honest we really need to start again and restructure the NHS but nobody dare!

shropshirelass
“ The government is not responsible for pay awards, they have independent pay review bodies”

well you’ve fallen for that - hook, line and sinker

I get very angry that shareholders get dividends, bosses get huge bonuses and strikers get blamed. Our country has never been so economically divided . I would ban all bonuses in favour of decent salaries across the board.
Our postman is fantastic and I support him totally as I do the rail workers , the nurses, the ambulance workers, immigration staff, anything to bring down this hopeless, ineffective, ineffectual, government. They have had 12 years to make life better . Disaster!

MaizieD

Just a wee reminder that the train drivers aren't on strike, Oreo. They are ASLEF. RMT is railway workers; station staff, track maintenance, guards etc. Not drivers.

I know they weren’t in the beginning but I thought they’d recently joined the strike.

I think the issue of personal debt is a separate issue.

Unions and strikes have been very important in gaining workers better conditions and pay. I absolutely uphold the right to strike.
Agree Anneeba. Why could voters not see that? Unbelievable they've been in power so long.
Would a general strike be a good idea?

eazybee

No, it is the people who are choosing to go on strike who are to blame.

We had pretty much the same problems under Labour in the 70s. Enter the dreadful Margaret Thatcher! I don’t think it’s the fault of any government actually, we don’t live under a dictatorship, that’s why people are allowed to strike. Trouble is, where do they think the money is coming from to pay these higher wages, even higher than train drivers are paid already!!!
I’m no economist but even I can work out that we can’t spend more than we earn.

Tory government giggling away behind false concerned faces. Their objective has ever been to kill the NHS, along with minimising all state run operations. They've just about achieved their aim. Unforgivable what they have done over the last 12 years.

Yes, absolutely agree. Especially about the cost of not defaulting on credit racked up to have a (grey) house to keep up with the Jones’s or a newish car on tick. I have all compassion for those genuinely in hard times but little that are there due to their own foolishness. But whatever, it is the children that suffer.

The government is not responsible for pay awards, they have independent pay review bodies. I doubt it would be any different whichever party happened to be in power. I disagree with strikes and feel they do not help, they just cause harm to individuals and business. Listening to the news last night and an interview regarding paramedics, my first thought was that the spokesperson was stirring trouble with her comments, not being constructive or supportive, just militant. The country cannot be held to ransom and giving in to one group will cause more unrest. The country is in terrible debt, people have short memories about all the support they were given during Covid. I don’t know what the answer is or when all this will end.