should the government be ashamed

I honestly do not know why anyone would blame the present government: Sunak and his Cabinet have only been in power for a very short time. It is hardly their fault that the UK is in the state it is in, nor could they have been expected to wave a wand upon forming a government and undoing everything that has gone wrong in the previous three or four governments' time.

Nor is it fair, nor right to blame those who are out on strike. They have been forced to this desperate measure because their working conditions are poor and their salaries no longer anything like adequate to provide a decent living.

So who is to blame?

Many people, including all those with legitimate grounds for striking for not having done so years ago, when the problems started.

Executives in the NHS, post office, railways etc. etc. who could and should have either prevent the problems, or solved them long since.

The Unions that have obviously not protected the interests of their members.

The electorate that has put up with incompetent, lying or otherwise dishonest politicians for years.

And no doubt a great many other instances and institutions, but the above will do for a start.

Gov found the money to give MP's a rise a while back, they always do

When I started reading that post, I thought it was going to be ironic.

Sadly, not.

grandtanteJE65

I honestly do not know why anyone would blame the present government: Sunak and his Cabinet have only been in power for a very short time. It is hardly their fault that the UK is in the state it is in, nor could they have been expected to wave a wand upon forming a government and undoing everything that has gone wrong in the previous three or four governments' time.

Nor is it fair, nor right to blame those who are out on strike. They have been forced to this desperate measure because their working conditions are poor and their salaries no longer anything like adequate to provide a decent living.

So who is to blame?

Many people, including all those with legitimate grounds for striking for not having done so years ago, when the problems started.

Executives in the NHS, post office, railways etc. etc. who could and should have either prevent the problems, or solved them long since.

The Unions that have obviously not protected the interests of their members.

The electorate that has put up with incompetent, lying or otherwise dishonest politicians for years.

And no doubt a great many other instances and institutions, but the above will do for a start.

You can’t be serious, surely? Are you actually saying that this is a new government when the Tories have been in power for 12 years?

NHS needs a complete overhaul it is not fit for purpose any more. Demand keeps rising. Not sure increasing salaries is the answer though - more about lack of parking and other basic terms and conditions. Higher salaries may help retention but not sure? Working for the current iteration of the NHS just seems about more than a pay increase.

The Tories are selfish , arrogant idiots and always have been. They have ruined this country and our beloved NHS.

CoolCoco

They are just going to brazen it out and hope the public begin to turn on the strikers. I don't think that's going to happen, certainly not with the NHS staff. We are getting a below par service now and have been for several years. They need to get a grip or call an election.

I am fascinated to know what you think will be achieved by calling an election??? Just as I am fascinated to know why people take what they consider to be poorly paid jobs with dreadful conditions in the first place! I don’t pretend to know what the solution is but I do know strike action never achieves a successful or satisfactory long term solution for anyone.

Just as I am fascinated to know why people take what they consider to be poorly paid jobs with dreadful conditions in the first place!

Because when they took the jobs they weren't badly paid and the conditions were better?

Can you really not see that?

Also, you have a very skewed idea about the outcomes of strikes. Do you think improved working conditions came about because the employers were all altruistic good guys?

ruthiek

Sorry and I know I am about to castigated but I truly believe this a political fight to bring the government down. I see the nurses in Scotland hsve refused 8%

Perhaps the government should call the strikers bluff then and meet their demands.

Hope all the people with very short memories dont put this shower back in power . We could start the new y ear well by having an election and getting rid of people who think that they can carry on in their arrogant attitude trying to blame anyone but themselves for everything. Well Just think how far the money they paid their cronies for the useless (non)protective stuff, would have gone in paying a better wage to those working in the nhs. Be glad to be rid of this horrible year. Surely we must be able to do better than this next year?

grandtanteJE65
I honestly do not know why anyone would blame the present government: Sunak and his Cabinet have only been in power for a very short time. It is hardly their fault that the UK is in the state it is in, nor could they have been expected to wave a wand upon forming a government and undoing everything that has gone wrong in the previous three or four governments' time.

That’s true-the Tories have been in power for so long-elected because of the mess left by the previous Labour government who were elected because of the mess left by the previous Tory government.
You’re right about the magic wand bit too. The next Labour government will be expected to wave one, and will blame the Tories for their inability to do so.
The blame game and the failure to ‘wave a magic wand’ is part of the routine for a new government taking over. It’s just more difficult this time because the new government is not a different party.

I feel so heartened that the majority of the public, including those on here, are in support of the health workers strike, because they know they are right.

I wish the media would not keep repeating the line that the wage demands are unaffordable.. Anyone who has a brief grasp of economics would realise, and this has been mentioned several times on here, tax does NOT fund government spending.

Government decisions are as usual, based on ideology, not evidence.

Farzanah

I feel so heartened that the majority of the public, including those on here, are in support of the health workers strike, because they know they are right.

I wish the media would not keep repeating the line that the wage demands are unaffordable.. Anyone who has a brief grasp of economics would realise, and this has been mentioned several times on here, tax does NOT fund government spending.

Government decisions are as usual, based on ideology, not evidence.

Well yes, most posters do seem to support the strikers, and more importantly, understand that it is in everyone's interest that the future of the NHS, railways and Mail deliveries are resolved. Sadly, a few (new?) posters are trotting out the same old nonsense, even suggesting that strikers should "get better paid jobs" or learn to budget better. Hopefully the hard of thinking are in the minority. Oh, and can I repeat; these problems existed before covid19 or the Ukraine invasion.

That’s true-the Tories have been in power for so long-elected because of the mess left by the previous Labour government who were elected because of the mess left by the previous Tory government.

I have to point out that the last Labour government didn't leave the country in a mess.

( Perhaps I should use a few capital letters, too {grin] )

And, compared with the current corrupt and talentless shower, the tory government before them didn't do too badly, either.

But for 12 long years since 2010 the tories have been systematically dismantling the country's public services and making an awful lot of people poorer into the bargain, while a few people have become much, much richer.

I 'could' publish a whole great list of Labour achievements from the decade they were in power. Would anyone have a list of what positive things the tories have achieved in the last 12 years?

I was just about to post that the LP left the NHS in a relatively good state in 2010. Not the sad state it has become.
Good health is an important factor in whether a nation thrives or not, and the Tories obviously do not care about this.

I worked in the NHS for my whole career. There was never enough staff and the pay was never good enough. For my last few years there was a pay freeze. In previous pay negotiations a few years before that we didn't get a pay increase but were offered extra days of annual leave. Gradually, they were eroded too so we didn't gain anything. NHS wasn't in a great state for Tories to inherit.

The government should be more than ashamed, they should call an election. This is a disgusting government. I do not blame any of the strikers including the poor postmen who have more to do than anyone realises and who used to be a caring, watchful force in the community but less so now because of pressures. All these strikers kept going in the pandemic, and kept us going. The strikes are not just about pay, they are about hours worked, staffing levels and public safety. What else can they do to get listened to?

I worked in the NHS my whole career too Aveline, and I have to say that your memory is flawed. Here’s the facts.
www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/chart-of-the-week-what-has-happened-to-nhs-staff-pay-since-201

undines

The government should be more than ashamed, they should call an election. This is a disgusting government. I do not blame any of the strikers including the poor postmen who have more to do than anyone realises and who used to be a caring, watchful force in the community but less so now because of pressures. All these strikers kept going in the pandemic, and kept us going. The strikes are not just about pay, they are about hours worked, staffing levels and public safety. What else can they do to get listened to?

Good post

It was in a damn site better place than it is now Aveline. Just look at the stats regarding waiting lists etc.
I also worked as a health professional all my working life. Admittedly the rot did start with Thatcher, but the NHS was better funded during Labour’s last term, and the NHS at that time was considered more efficient cost effective than many comparable countries.

Thanks Casdon. Crossed post.

just as I’m fascinated to know why people take what they take to be poorly paid jobs with dreadful conditions in the first place
How about they can’t get another job.
Have to pay the rent/ mortgage.
Feed and clothe the kids and themselves.
Your obviously very fortunate that you’ve never been in that situation.

So how come my pay was frozen? How come the extra days annual leave was offered instead of a pay increase? I definitely wouldn't forget that! I also don't forget that my post was frozen when I went on maternity leave and not reopened again for almost two years. Of course I'm in Scotland so things might have been different up here.

Aveline

So how come my pay was frozen? How come the extra days annual leave was offered instead of a pay increase? I definitely wouldn't forget that! I also don't forget that my post was frozen when I went on maternity leave and not reopened again for almost two years. Of course I'm in Scotland so things might have been different up here.

When was your pay frozen, Aveline?

Aveline

So how come my pay was frozen? How come the extra days annual leave was offered instead of a pay increase? I definitely wouldn't forget that! I also don't forget that my post was frozen when I went on maternity leave and not reopened again for almost two years. Of course I'm in Scotland so things might have been different up here.

There was a three year, UK Agenda for Change pay deal from 2008 Aveline, so I’m guessing the freeze you are referring to was prior to that? Your post being frozen while you were on maternity leave would have been a local decision, there’s never been a government directive to freeze all NHS posts.