Historic rape accusation, should we change behaviours?

And then decide

Listen to the evidence.
Think about it

Then decide

If you've ever had the misfortune to be on a jury trying a rape case you might, as I did, find some of your fellow jurors gave not a jot of concern about the evidence having made their minds up at the start of the case.

I was on a jury too, though not a rape case, where people had already made up their minds before even being presented with charge, let alone the evidence. Just their own preconceptions.

Very frightening that someone’s life and family hung in the balance and there were people who couldn’t divorce their personal feelings from the facts.

Thing is, sexual assault survivors are treated as liars from the start by police. Questioned for hours, in detail, about how they were touched, where, when, how often… everything in excruciating detail. It’s often described as feeling like being assaulted over again. So many victims simply can’t handle the trauma compounded by disbelieving authority figures that they don’t complete the report, or are too traumatized to try and make one to start with. And if they do get through it, court is worse. If there’s press coverage, they’re surrounded by people speculating on the worst event of their lives, and there is ALWAYS those who blame the victims and call them liars.

Even when convicted, there’s concern about the rapist’s future vs the victim’s. Brock Turner comes to mind.

False allegations are extremely rare, but get a lot of attention. Would be far more effective to put time, energy and effort in teaching people not to rape than to focus on false accusations.

All the more reason to avoid being alone with men you don't know well enough to trust.

So sad that the jurors went with their emotions rather than facts.

I don’t agree with your last paragraph.

Every proven false allegation has an impact on bringing a true case to justice.

False allegations need to be prosecuted as seriously as we would want a rape to be prosecuted. Both destroy their victims.

I agree 100% Lathyrus

MercuryQueen False allegations are extremely rare, but get a lot of attention. Would be far more effective to put time, energy and effort in teaching people not to rape than to focus on false accusations.

Of course time, energy and effort should be put into teaching men not to rape, but to dismiss the horror and injustice of false accusations on the innocent is as abhorrent to me as dismissing rape accusations. Innocence is innocence and lives, such as Stefan Kiszko's, are every bit as precious as any rape victim's. Imagine a friend, relative, son or husband of yours falsely accused, convicted and imprisoned. I'm sure you'd not be so dismissive.

I agree that it would be horrific to have a male relative put into that dreadful position.

My husband does avoid being alone with females he doesn't know well enough to trust because we both have the friend who was falsely accused.

Lathyrus

I was on a jury too, though not a rape case, where people had already made up their minds before even being presented with charge, let alone the evidence. Just their own preconceptions.

Very frightening that someone’s life and family hung in the balance and there were people who couldn’t divorce their personal feelings from the facts.

I've done jury service 4 times (involving multiple cases), been called 5 times, and I'd be terrified of a jury trial, unless there was someone like me on the jury. I've done my '12 angry men' stint twice so far. I wish they wouldn't keep pushing the upper age back, I'll not be safe from being called for some years yet. Trial by your peers is fine until the jury is composed of disinterested people just anxious to be released from an onerous, time-consuming, and sometimes money affecting commitment.

OH was accused of being ”aggressive” by a woman about a month ago.
We were sitting at a table with 10 others chatting, all he did was lean forward so he could hear her better, the stupid woman kicked off and made an awful fuss, what her problem was I have no idea.

If false accusations are treated as seriously as rape then 1 % of them would result in prosecution.
My friend, son or husband is more likely to be raped than falsely accused of the crime.

Galaxy

If false accusations are treated as seriously as rape then 1 % of them would result in prosecution.
My friend, son or husband is more likely to be raped than falsely accused of the crime.

Thanks Galaxy, for maintaining the focus here.

The fear of being falsely accused does seem to get more focus than the fear of rape.

Lathyrus

I don’t agree with your last paragraph.

Every proven false allegation has an impact on bringing a true case to justice.

False allegations need to be prosecuted as seriously as we would want a rape to be prosecuted. Both destroy their victims.

The problem I see? Unless the person admits it’s a false allegation, how do you know? Many rapes are unable to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Does that mean that victims also need to fear being prosecuted for a false allegation? And how do you determine which is which?

I did say proven false allegations. In both the cases I have known personally the accuser did confess to having made up the allegation. In both cases when the person accused of rape was able to prove their innocence.

One was a teenage girl, piqued at having been rejected. It involved a classmate. Fortunately there was CCTV footage of her stripping off her clothes and accosting the boy. She was cautioned. He had to move school in the middle of his exam course because of those who still believed a male must be guilty.

The other was the daughter of a colleague whose partner had ended the relationship. She injured herself with a hammer, externally and internally and claimed to have been raped. She gave a clear description of a man who had been in the pub at the same time as her and claimed he had followed her and raped her on her way home. Again CCTV proved him innocent but he was arrested and held in custody whilst investigations took place. Whilst awaiting trial he was beaten up. He lost his job. His wife and children lost their home. The children were devastated.
She was given a suspended sentence.

I don’t consider either of those two false accuser were punished adequately for the damage they caused to other people’s lives.

how do you determine a false allegation from a genuine one. Prosecution is rare, successful prosecution more so. Some victims wait years for the case to get to court.
False allegations are prosecuted. Two recent come to mind, medical records would have pointed the need for caution. But medical records can and are used to destroy witnesses in cross examination.
CPS rarely prosecute unless independent evidence is available.

I’mfearful of rapists, sex offenders not being prosecuted. I’m reluctant to take a challenging approach in which a person reporting rape also fears being prosecuted if independent evidence isn’t found

Historic allegations are treated with skepticism by many, 5 or 10 or 20 yrs on how do you find evidence - Cliff Richard as an example, it’s easy to make a vexatious accusation. However allegations from several separate individuals have to be taken much more seriously - Jimmy Saville and others.

The whole area is a minefield and of course we'd all want to see more successful prosecutions of rape. However, to just ignore or dismiss the harm those four girls contributed towards Stefan while they had a 'laugh', weighs his and his mother's lives as counting for nothing.
Successful rape prosecutions should attract much longer penalties than judges seem willing to hand down, but that's probably for another thread.

Nobody is saying it's a laugh though, or I am certainly not. I am saying in terms of risk for my Male family members they are much more at risk being alone with men.

Do you mean they are more at risk of physical harm? Or of a false allegation. I’m a bit confused.

Delila

I don’t understand your comment AmberSpyglass. Falsely accused men are not, by definition, raping people.

The point (I think) she was trying to make is that many, many rapes go unconvicted and that those men claim they were falsely accused. Given that almost no rapists are convicted, that is an awful lot of real rapists claiming false accusation.

Of rape. Statistically they are more likely to be raped by a man than be victim of a false allegation by a woman..

Nevertheless, each accusation and subsequent investigation should be taken as an individual case, based on evidence, without preconceptions based on prejudice or belief.

Just as rape when proven should be dealt with severely, so should false allegations when proven.

Both crimes are equally damaging, not just to the accused, but to convictions for rape.

Galaxy

Of rape. Statistically they are more likely to be raped by a man than be victim of a false allegation by a woman..

Thanks for clarifying 🙂

Rosie51

If you've ever had the misfortune to be on a jury trying a rape case you might, as I did, find some of your fellow jurors gave not a jot of concern about the evidence having made their minds up at the start of the case.

Of course, in the case of Stefan Kiszko, the evidence which would have cleared him was not presented to the court by the police.
This should not happen now.

Callistemon21 yes that was unforgivable, evidence suppressed. The real transgressor was eventually convicted on DNA evidence 30 years later. You have to wonder if he committed other offences in the interim, with the probability being that he did.