Drastic change in the law necessary

But what change?

The exchange of contracts should be binding?
If a buyer or seller drops out after exchange of legal contracts then a penalty should be paid?

Yes, it does need to be more specific, I think, CountessFosco.

Someone we know, who is financially very savvy, insisted on a clause where the would-be purchaser paid a penalty for every month the buyer delayed. The buyer dropped out after six months of prevarication and time-wasting.

Lathyrus

My sister spent thousands on House Buyers Reports in Scotland and didn’t win one bid.

It’s a silly petition. It doesn’t give any idea what system would replace the current one.

It’s the seller who pays for the Home Report in Scotland not the buyer.

Oh surveyors fees then. It was years ago. Does the Report replace the need for a survey?

Fleurpepper when someone did that to us, we withdrew from the sale and when they came back we refused to sell to them. We found another buyer.

A reasonable change would be to say that once a price is agreed, it should be subject to survey, but otherwise cannot be further reduced. This will protect buyers stuck with a price when the survey reveals problems that were not evident on viewing.

Lathyrus

Oh surveyors fees then. It was years ago. Does the Report replace the need for a survey?

Yes. A buyer can still get their own survey done, though, if they want more detailed information.

Thanks.

Is the sale still subject to a detailed survey or do you just chance that there’s nothing major that isn’t in the report?

J52

Lathyrus

My sister spent thousands on House Buyers Reports in Scotland and didn’t win one bid.

It’s a silly petition. It doesn’t give any idea what system would replace the current one.

It’s the seller who pays for the Home Report in Scotland not the buyer.

Seriously, who relies on a survey the seller pays for, it’s a guide but you check it out yourself as well.

mokryna

It is even problematic in France. The buyer has to put a down payment when signing for the property, which will be lost, if the agreement is broken. However, if it is a problem with the bank (which could be arranged with the bank somehow if the buyer has changed their minds), then the buyer does not lose anything and gets the down payment refunded.
This happened twice this year to my friend’s son while selling his flat in Paris.

That is an extremely rare occurrence and would involve the bank in making an illegal declaration.
The French system is excellent for the majority of buyers and sellers. There are no surveys to be waited on or being used as an excuse to " pull out" , there are legally binding obligations for both parties to proceed with the sale, unless there are clauses to allow for this that are mutually agreed before signing. If your friends had the problem of buyers pulling out at the last minute, they must have agreed to those terms at the beginning of the process, they took that risk and under the French system they didn't have to.
You can never eliminate all the risks of house buying and selling, as with anything, but you can have system that gives the sellers and purchasers legal assurances that the sale will succeed and they have ultimate control of it.

Lathyrus

Thanks.

Is the sale still subject to a detailed survey or do you just chance that there’s nothing major that isn’t in the report?

No one commissioned a second report for the 40yo house we sold so I assume most people are happy with the Home Report survey.

I guess if you’re buying a house that’s hundreds of years old you might want to have your own survey done, though. We bought a new build, which hopefully won’t fall down just yet!

How does the survey bit work in France? There must be a way of knowing any major problems before you commit?

Lathyrus

How does the survey bit work in France? There must be a way of knowing any major problems before you commit?

Every seller has to submit a set of reports from government accredited companies that attest to the compliance of water, drainage systems, electrics, insulation and the absence of things like woodworm, asbestos, lead etc. As far as the general condition of the building, unless it is stated on the sales documents, that is up to you. Some people get builders to have a look, some don't, the buyer is expected to exercise due diligence. For example a buyer may be unsure about the condition of the roof and could ask for proof of it's condition before they commit. Both sides can ask for any clauses they want to be included in the agreement to buy, but once agreed by both parties, it's legally binding with no way of either party to change their minds. There is a 7 day cooling off period after the first papers are signed that are a bit stressful, but after that you are home and dry.

When we bought our house in Scotland we had our own surveys carried out. The house had not changed hands for many years and as we were gutting it so we didn’t want any budget surprises.
Our solicitor did all negotiations and paperwork, all we had to do was sign on completion. It was so simple and stress free.
It took about 5-6 weeks in all.

Only small % not worth it.

Will sign.

I've sold properties twice since 2011. Each time I have openly declared "what needs doing", provided gas, electric and map surveys, provided estimates for work needing doing, and the buyers did not ask for more than the mortgage survey.

but in the second sale I had an errant buyer who was so totally enthusiastic I had no more people round. 5 months later she called me over in my gym, computer open, and condessed that she was freaked out by even tiny electric substations in the area, and had found one. I lost a lot of money on that sale because I had to sell quickly after that.

I couldn't believe, if she had a "thing" about substations, she hadn't done a search before even coming round!

The tiny substation, btw, was 150 yards away. I wasn't even aware of it.

So something that would have protected me..most welcome.

J52

When we bought our house in Scotland we had our own surveys carried out. The house had not changed hands for many years and as we were gutting it so we didn’t want any budget surprises.
Our solicitor did all negotiations and paperwork, all we had to do was sign on completion. It was so simple and stress free.
It took about 5-6 weeks in all.

It sounds easy and I suppose it is if you don’t get caught up in the sealed bids circus in Scotland. That’s where my sister lost a shed load of money.

There was also the problem of do you sell your house first to enable you to go ahead with the purchase that’s now legally binding and end up homeless for months. That’s what she did and never won a sealed bid.

You can’t afford to take the chance that you’ll be able to sell at the price you want and the timescale you need to enable you to complete if you buy first and then sell yours after.

It wasn’t a system that worked well for her.

France sounds better. You could get a survey done in the cooling off 7 days and then pull out? Would you lose your deposit?

Lathyrus

France sounds better. You could get a survey done in the cooling off 7 days and then pull out? Would you lose your deposit?

The deposit is not payed until the end of the 7 days so you are free to withdraw from the agreement for any reason, as is the seller. Of course this only applies to first time buyers, everyone else doesn't have to put down a deposit, but the law decrees that if you pull out you have to pay the seller 10% of the house value. You can insist, if you want, that all buyers put some kind of a deposit down with the Notaire as good faith, but that rarely happens as the system works very well without.

There was also the problem of do you sell your house first to enable you to go ahead with the purchase that’s now legally binding and end up homeless for months. That’s what she did and never won a sealed bid.

Things have changed a lot in Scotland in recent years, as we found, and often solicitors won’t accept a bid unless you’ve either sold your own house or have proof of sufficient funds in the bank to finance the purchase. Even buying a new-build, the company wouldn’t accept a deposit from us until we’d sold our own property or could provide proof of funds.

In France you can make an offer on conditions.When we bought our house in France, we made on offer on a house on condition the household waste water system was sorted. It relied on a small group of people making a private arrangement with a local farmer to use a very non-compliant septic tank on his land. When it was sorted the seller decided that now that was sorted he would stay.

Our next door neighbour is currently having problems over th sale of hi parent's house. He got a sale, but after a short period the buyers ceased to communicate with him and the Notaire carrying out the legal side of the sale/purchase. Then they reappeared - and then went missing again. The sale should have completed last June. 6 months later.......

The simple facts are that no system is perfect and never will be perfect, whether you are in England, Scotland, France, Outer Mongolia, or Timbuktu, If a seller/buyer decides to be uncooperative and difficult they can find a way to b*gger things up, no matter how perfect the system.

Fleurpepper

We experienced a real nightmare with the sale of our last house- due to the person asking 20% off on the day of signing contract. The stress is just beyond belief.

Will sign right now.

We had this when moving from England to Scotland they thought they were being clever and we would have no option. But we had a clause added to our contract saying the purchase would only go ahead once our sale was completed, we just walked away.

I sympathize with the frustration but to give the perspective of being one of those that 'pulled out' of a house purchase, it can be equally as frustrating for the buyer. Last year we were given the runaround by the seller of a house we wanted to buy, which ended up forcing us to withdraw. We also incurred solicitors costs for the house we didn't end up buying. The annoying thing is our offer was accepted over several others because we were chain free and they supposedly wanted to complete asap.

The system is so complex that things can go wrong in lots of ways.
When I moved (after lots of complications and 16 months on the market), the money failed to transfer on completion day as Barclays systems went down. It was a long chain and we were homeless from Friday to Monday when the money transferred. We were told that banks systems often fail as they do not invest enough in foolproofing them, though technically they could.

What I don't like is this game the estate agents play when you're buying. They tell you someone else is interested and the seller wants you both to make an offer and they will accept the highest. If you are desperate not to lose the property then this puts pressure on you to offer the very most you can manage, maybe overspend and put yourself in trouble. This has happened to me twice and I really don't like it. How do we even know there is another buyer?

Elusivebutterfly

The system is so complex that things can go wrong in lots of ways.
When I moved (after lots of complications and 16 months on the market), the money failed to transfer on completion day as Barclays systems went down. It was a long chain and we were homeless from Friday to Monday when the money transferred. We were told that banks systems often fail as they do not invest enough in foolproofing them, though technically they could.

I have had problems with money transferring on completion date and will never complete on a Friday again!