A small boy shoots his teacher in US

This is a truly terrible thing. However, I don't think a six-year-old child has the slightest concept of death and had absolutely no realisation of the seriousness of his actions. What the parents were doing with the accessibility of a gun to such a young child is a quite separate issue, as is their own attitude towards when guns should be used.

The whole horrible insistence that guns should seem to be freely available to all and sundry in the USA is distressing in the extreme. I actually believe that fantasy cowboy movies in the 1950s and on helped develop this acceptance of violence.

Boogaloo Living in a remote area no-one would deny you the right to protect yourself. From what I understand of the USA that is the very reason guns have always been so important. That is hardly the same as driving or walking through city areas, schools, churches and shops with guns. No-one needs a gun in a built up area to defend themselves, except from other people with guns. That's why people here carry knives, because they think they are protecting themselves from other people with knives. That is the way to madness.

By the way:
Purpose of cars - to move living creatures around
Purpose of guns - to kill living creatures

I am a gun owner, as is everyone else I know.

Does anyone really believe that criminals would willingly hand over their guns if guns were banned? You might as well say cars & trucks should be outlawed because some people are not responsible drivers and people are killed as a consequence? It's not unheard of for a car to be used as a deadly weapon.

Our house is in the middle of nowhere and if we needed help it would take the sheriff at least an hour to get here. We'd be sitting ducks if we were not allowed to defend ourselves. That's not happening.

"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is in the United States Declaration of Independence. The second amendment to the Constitution of the United States, gives us the right to keep and bear arms.

Both Democrats and Republicans are gun owners.

There are many, many laws that surround buying and owning guns, including laws that address leaving your guns accessible to children. The parents of the child will be held accountable.

Our guns are to keep our families safe. It's well known around here that people in remote farmhouses are safe because the baddies know we are well armed and have the right to use deadly force to protect ourselves. We don't use our guns for killing animals by the way.

Chestnut

It is still shocking that a child would stab her brother to death with a knife! What has been going on in that house, and in her head, to bring about such a terrible outcome? What can we do with someone so young who is capable of such an act?

I meant to quote this -- tech is not my main ability!

Fleurpepper

Knives generally kill one at a time, usually a desinated target. Most modern guns are semi- or automatic, and can kill so many randomly.

Interestingly, a PhD student, murdered 4 uni students in Idaho, with a knife. Academia - what could be more boring, less likely to cause problems?

DaisyAnne when the average citizen in this country can make our government do the humanitarian things they should be doing then, possibly, just possibly, you can assume others should be doing the same in their country with their government.

Indeed.

Fleurpepper Have you looked at the link I posted and seen what kind of changes those that are asking for change have in mind? Do you think any of them would lead to a reduction in gun incidents?

It is still shocking that a child would stab her brother to death with a knife! What has been going on in that house, and in her head, to bring about such a terrible outcome? What can we do with someone so young who is capable of such an act?

Knives generally kill one at a time, usually a desinated target. Most modern guns are semi- or automatic, and can kill so many randomly.

Children killing other children and adults is not confined to the US though. Remember those horrible little boys who murdered James Bulger? What is different is the ease which children can get guns. I can’t think of any other country where this is the case.

Now we have a 12 year old girl in Oklahoma who has just stabbed her 9 year old brother. The Police said 'This, unfortunately, has no easy end or easy path, this is going to be a long, convoluted process that's going to be extremely taxing on everyone involved in this.'

So even if you get rid of guns you can't get rid of knives. There is a serious problem with society. How can you deal with children who kill and may be living amongst us for another 80 years?

It does not make it 'their choice' - not for massive numbers, be it the majority or not.

i also said, as you acknowledge, Shocked and horrified that a rich and advanced democracy can tolerate brutality certainly, but it is their choice.

And I am shocked and horrified by the freedom of gun ownership in the US - and regular slaughter of the innocents that ensues, but there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.

The solution to this problem lies with the American people and so far they have chosen, as a whole, to do nothing, and as my link some pages back shows that the kind of gun control measures mostly supported would do little to limit the massacre. To save you searching here is the link again www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/09/13/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/

Read it - it makes depressing reading. If a society that can tolerate the high and casual gun ownership and concomitant slaughter of the innocents is not brutal, I do not know what is.

Just because it is hidden behind a veneer of comfortable living, where many people can express liberal and compassionate views, does not change the fact that underneath it is an attitude to guns and killing that is considered totally unacceptable by any other civilised country.

We are all aware that there is a different attitude and mentality in the US, this especially in some States.

But what you wrote is abhorrent

'Let's be brutal - And, if they are so brutalised that even this incident cannot turn them off guns, then so be it.

They do not care - and it is their children dying/shooting people - why should we? Shocked and horrified that a rich and advanced democracy can tolerate brutality certainly, but it is their choice.'

Like it or not, in the US, while there are obviously many people who would like to see stricter gun laws, although whether the controls many people would support would do anything seriously to limit the slaughter is doubtful. The number who would support gun laws as strict as those in most European countries is very limited.

Either way, the US population, as a whole, accepts the current gun laws, and the resulting high death rates, or at least doesn't feel strongly enough about them to protest very much - I consider that a brutal fact, if that upsets you, I will describe them as the plain facts, or what other euphamism would you prefer?

What other countries do on other topics is irrelevant.

We came across an avid American gun supporter in our travels. He said he always carried a gun whilst in America and that no one would ever ‘mess’ with him or his family. It seems to be an old frontier mentality that has never left them. Maybe it is that dangerous in some parts that a gun is necessary? He wasn’t an ignorant man in other ways, he was rich and successful and canny but so, so different in his mindset.

M0nica

Lets be brutal. If a country encourages gun ownership and effectively has a regime that, whatever the rules, makes it possible for children to easily access guns then events like this are going to happen.

It is fine for police chiefs and, indeed, coming from a more civilised counry, for people like us to be shocked and horrify us,

But until the Americans, themselves accept that the slaughter of innocent children and men is so high that they must bring in restrictions on gun ownership, nothing is going to change.

And, if they are so brutalised that even this incident cannot turn them off guns, then so be it.

They do not care - and it is their children dying/shooting people - why should we? Shocked and horrified that a rich and advanced democracy can tolerate brutality certainly, but it is their choice.

The very sane and sensible Americans who want gun control are up against big money and madmen like Trump. America does not have the same culture as this country, nor are we part of it or they part of us.

So let's not be "brutal". I can't think of anything more inappropriate to suggest. Newport News is home to a third of my family, they were horrified. People do care - a great deal.

I think, M0nica, that when the average citizen in this country can make our government do the humanitarian things they should be doing then, possibly, just possibly, you can assume others should be doing the same in their country with their government. Until then all you know is what your read in news comics or see on the television or social media.

Elegran - I’m edge of moors, north Manchester. Our butcher sells pheasants from any shoots

M0nica

tizliz I am surprised to hear that, perhaps only in Scotland? Around here it all goes into the food trade (retail, wholesale and catering). I think some, I do not know how much, goes into pet food.

When I lived in the Scottish Borders, there would several times in the autumn be shoots on the farms/estates of one or other of the local landowners. The pheasants shot would be given to friends and neighbours if there were too many for the shooters and their familes to eat.. We benefitted from this to the tune of a few pheasant dinners a year. Very pleasant to eat, though plucking and drawing them wasn't much fun.
I don't think any were buried. They went to butchers, who paid about 50p each and sold them for a lot more than that, so contributing to the local economy.

'I'm sorry, but you cannot blame most Americans for wanting to protect themselves and their families.'

are you from the USA? Do you live there?

I can't think anyone in the UK would say the above.

Don't kid yourself. There are plenty of Democrats who vote against gun control in one way or another. Also, you have to understand that laws that get passed in our country are very often snuck in overnight, with little discussion, or even the chance to read the content of the bill, and with perhaps a really egregious amount of pork attached. In other words, we will limit this so-and-so, and, by the way, Americans can no longer buy a certain kind of wood for guitar making. I'm not kidding. It's ridiculous. The main problem we have with gun violence is in the inner cities. There are certain citizens, and, believe me, they're not usually Republicans or conservatives or typical gun owners who belong to the NRA, who value life so little that they go around shooting people at funerals. Sometimes, it's like some sort of Mafia nightmare, only it isn't the Mafia, from the 1930s. Recently, it has become law in many major cities that many criminals are not charged after they're arrested. They're not even charged bail, but are just let go. This is not for minor crimes, either. If you've seen any of the videos of Chicago or New York City or San Francisco, then you know what's going on. People are showing up en masse, thanks to social media, and virtually attacking a store and shoppers and employees. They have a law in many places, particularly in California, where a theft of under $1,000 is not even prosecuted. It used to be that a $50 theft was a felony. That's inflation for you! These criminals go in with numbers which overwhelm anyone in the store, they take what they want, load it into their car, and come back for more. Someone Google the mayor of Chicago dancing for Instagram. This is about enough to drive any law-abiding citizen over the edge, but a lot of these people are nothing like law-abiding. Of course, this is not all of the problem, but it is a vast majority of the problem. These people usually do not buy guns legally. For crying out loud, you can make a gun with a 3D printer now. I'm sorry, but you cannot blame most Americans for wanting to protect themselves and their families.

Not surprised that there are many more licences issued in Scotland due to the countryside pursuits which are big business but they are very much controlled as described by tizliz. Gun laws here in Scotland were seriously reviewed after the Dunblane school massacre tragedy.

Bluebelle I didn't say anything about shooting animals and birds. I was talking about target shooting, which I have to admit is one of the most mind numbingly boring sports in the world if you are with real enthusiasts. A more worrying fact might be that my son in law was on aircraft carriers where his skills included arming nuclear missiles and making napalm. Not skills that he has brought into civilian life.

BlueBelle

See I even find that statement unpleasant he loves shooting
I even think it s hideous to shoot animals and birds for pleasure or sport Especially when they are bred just to be killed by the hunting, shooting brigade.
That makes me shudder

I feel exactly the same. Well said.

BTW I lost a cousin from the USA last year. He always had loaded guns in the house, in the garage, the kitchen and their bedroom. For the 2 years before he died, he suffered increasingly with Alzheimers, becoming increasingly violent- but no-one took his guns away. It is a miracle no-one was hurt or killed.

Monica 'I was not saying Americans do not care individually when their own children or they themselves are shot, but rather that they are indifferent, as a society, to the deaths of other Americans of any age,'

thanks. I did know exactly what you meant, and I still disagree. Yes, a vast number, whether the majority or not, as polls can be misleading, do want gun reforms, and not necessarily the abolition of the right to bear arms. And those people do care, and more than that, they are seriously worried, as parents, grand-parents, teachers, social workers, and so many more.