A small boy shoots his teacher in US

Elegran - I’m edge of moors, north Manchester. Our butcher sells pheasants from any shoots

M0nica

Lets be brutal. If a country encourages gun ownership and effectively has a regime that, whatever the rules, makes it possible for children to easily access guns then events like this are going to happen.

It is fine for police chiefs and, indeed, coming from a more civilised counry, for people like us to be shocked and horrify us,

But until the Americans, themselves accept that the slaughter of innocent children and men is so high that they must bring in restrictions on gun ownership, nothing is going to change.

And, if they are so brutalised that even this incident cannot turn them off guns, then so be it.

They do not care - and it is their children dying/shooting people - why should we? Shocked and horrified that a rich and advanced democracy can tolerate brutality certainly, but it is their choice.

The very sane and sensible Americans who want gun control are up against big money and madmen like Trump. America does not have the same culture as this country, nor are we part of it or they part of us.

So let's not be "brutal". I can't think of anything more inappropriate to suggest. Newport News is home to a third of my family, they were horrified. People do care - a great deal.

I think, M0nica, that when the average citizen in this country can make our government do the humanitarian things they should be doing then, possibly, just possibly, you can assume others should be doing the same in their country with their government. Until then all you know is what your read in news comics or see on the television or social media.

We came across an avid American gun supporter in our travels. He said he always carried a gun whilst in America and that no one would ever ‘mess’ with him or his family. It seems to be an old frontier mentality that has never left them. Maybe it is that dangerous in some parts that a gun is necessary? He wasn’t an ignorant man in other ways, he was rich and successful and canny but so, so different in his mindset.

Like it or not, in the US, while there are obviously many people who would like to see stricter gun laws, although whether the controls many people would support would do anything seriously to limit the slaughter is doubtful. The number who would support gun laws as strict as those in most European countries is very limited.

Either way, the US population, as a whole, accepts the current gun laws, and the resulting high death rates, or at least doesn't feel strongly enough about them to protest very much - I consider that a brutal fact, if that upsets you, I will describe them as the plain facts, or what other euphamism would you prefer?

What other countries do on other topics is irrelevant.

We are all aware that there is a different attitude and mentality in the US, this especially in some States.

But what you wrote is abhorrent

'Let's be brutal - And, if they are so brutalised that even this incident cannot turn them off guns, then so be it.

They do not care - and it is their children dying/shooting people - why should we? Shocked and horrified that a rich and advanced democracy can tolerate brutality certainly, but it is their choice.'

i also said, as you acknowledge, Shocked and horrified that a rich and advanced democracy can tolerate brutality certainly, but it is their choice.

And I am shocked and horrified by the freedom of gun ownership in the US - and regular slaughter of the innocents that ensues, but there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.

The solution to this problem lies with the American people and so far they have chosen, as a whole, to do nothing, and as my link some pages back shows that the kind of gun control measures mostly supported would do little to limit the massacre. To save you searching here is the link again www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/09/13/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/

Read it - it makes depressing reading. If a society that can tolerate the high and casual gun ownership and concomitant slaughter of the innocents is not brutal, I do not know what is.

Just because it is hidden behind a veneer of comfortable living, where many people can express liberal and compassionate views, does not change the fact that underneath it is an attitude to guns and killing that is considered totally unacceptable by any other civilised country.

It does not make it 'their choice' - not for massive numbers, be it the majority or not.

Now we have a 12 year old girl in Oklahoma who has just stabbed her 9 year old brother. The Police said 'This, unfortunately, has no easy end or easy path, this is going to be a long, convoluted process that's going to be extremely taxing on everyone involved in this.'

So even if you get rid of guns you can't get rid of knives. There is a serious problem with society. How can you deal with children who kill and may be living amongst us for another 80 years?

Children killing other children and adults is not confined to the US though. Remember those horrible little boys who murdered James Bulger? What is different is the ease which children can get guns. I can’t think of any other country where this is the case.

Knives generally kill one at a time, usually a desinated target. Most modern guns are semi- or automatic, and can kill so many randomly.

It is still shocking that a child would stab her brother to death with a knife! What has been going on in that house, and in her head, to bring about such a terrible outcome? What can we do with someone so young who is capable of such an act?

Fleurpepper Have you looked at the link I posted and seen what kind of changes those that are asking for change have in mind? Do you think any of them would lead to a reduction in gun incidents?

Fleurpepper

Knives generally kill one at a time, usually a desinated target. Most modern guns are semi- or automatic, and can kill so many randomly.

Interestingly, a PhD student, murdered 4 uni students in Idaho, with a knife. Academia - what could be more boring, less likely to cause problems?

DaisyAnne when the average citizen in this country can make our government do the humanitarian things they should be doing then, possibly, just possibly, you can assume others should be doing the same in their country with their government.

Indeed.

Chestnut

It is still shocking that a child would stab her brother to death with a knife! What has been going on in that house, and in her head, to bring about such a terrible outcome? What can we do with someone so young who is capable of such an act?

I meant to quote this -- tech is not my main ability!

I am a gun owner, as is everyone else I know.

Does anyone really believe that criminals would willingly hand over their guns if guns were banned? You might as well say cars & trucks should be outlawed because some people are not responsible drivers and people are killed as a consequence? It's not unheard of for a car to be used as a deadly weapon.

Our house is in the middle of nowhere and if we needed help it would take the sheriff at least an hour to get here. We'd be sitting ducks if we were not allowed to defend ourselves. That's not happening.

"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is in the United States Declaration of Independence. The second amendment to the Constitution of the United States, gives us the right to keep and bear arms.

Both Democrats and Republicans are gun owners.

There are many, many laws that surround buying and owning guns, including laws that address leaving your guns accessible to children. The parents of the child will be held accountable.

Our guns are to keep our families safe. It's well known around here that people in remote farmhouses are safe because the baddies know we are well armed and have the right to use deadly force to protect ourselves. We don't use our guns for killing animals by the way.

Boogaloo Living in a remote area no-one would deny you the right to protect yourself. From what I understand of the USA that is the very reason guns have always been so important. That is hardly the same as driving or walking through city areas, schools, churches and shops with guns. No-one needs a gun in a built up area to defend themselves, except from other people with guns. That's why people here carry knives, because they think they are protecting themselves from other people with knives. That is the way to madness.

By the way:
Purpose of cars - to move living creatures around
Purpose of guns - to kill living creatures

This is a truly terrible thing. However, I don't think a six-year-old child has the slightest concept of death and had absolutely no realisation of the seriousness of his actions. What the parents were doing with the accessibility of a gun to such a young child is a quite separate issue, as is their own attitude towards when guns should be used.

The whole horrible insistence that guns should seem to be freely available to all and sundry in the USA is distressing in the extreme. I actually believe that fantasy cowboy movies in the 1950s and on helped develop this acceptance of violence.

What I find difficult to understand is that in some ways the US is obsessed with the life of individual Americans, in that a single American under threat on foreign soil is treated as more valuable than any other human being. For example the recent trade of a US female basketball(?) player for a dangerous Russian(?) criminal. And yet they have no regard for the tens of thousands of citizens slaughtered every year at home in mass & other shootings. An excellent (but depressing) read is Gary Younge’s “Another Day in the Death of America” which is about the 10 children who are shot dead every DAY in the States. He takes a single random day and tells the story of each of those murdered CHILDREN.

Boogaloo In the USA there are 11 gun-related deaths for every 100,000 population.

In the UK there are 0.24 gun-related for every 100,000 population.

In other words for every UK resident killed by shooting over 45 USA residents are killed.

And, yes, in the UK most of the guns are in criminal hands, but look at the figures, I will repeat them for every UK citizen killed by shooting, over 45 USA residents are killed

Gun controls limit deaths by shooting, even when most of the guns are in criminal hands.

Boogaloo if your legally owned gun is kept in a gun safe well away from ammunition (which is the law here for legal firearms)
How could it possibly be available to "protect" you from a would be assassin?

Grammaretto

Boogaloo if your legally owned gun is kept in a gun safe well away from ammunition (which is the law here for legal firearms)
How could it possibly be available to "protect" you from a would be assassin?

The gun does not have to be big, a .22 ladies gun has little kickback and probably was kept in mums handbag. Easy to buy for just $200 deadly at close range.
Guns should be kept locked up but aren’t and it’s impossible to supervise

Children who saw this child shoot the teacher said he did so when the teacher wanted to take the gun away from him. She then shouted to the other children to run into another classroom and hide. I believe the child's parents have to take responsibility for not ensuring the gun was kept out of his reach.

In the UK civilians cannot have a handgun legally but there are a lot of licensed shotguns and rifles, the police are very tough on any misuse or threats involving firearms. Inevitably criminals do bring guns from Europe where they are much more available.

I m afraid I don’t buy your reason for being a gun owner (prospective user) Boogaloo we have just as remote areas in this and every other country with strict gun laws
You may own and use a gun for your protection but surely the burglar or house breaker will have one too so you are in no better position than anyone else It’s just the luck of the draw if you kill first or he/she kills first Lose/lose
I believe guns are the spawn of the devil
Yes we have knife crime here but usually you can only kill once with a knife (not good in fact bloody awful) but a gun can shoot many
The numbers of deaths in your country tell you the whole story the amount of shootings in schools is almost a weekly occurrence and how anyone can allow children to even touch a gun is beyond my understanding

Grammaretto

Boogaloo if your legally owned gun is kept in a gun safe well away from ammunition (which is the law here for legal firearms)
How could it possibly be available to "protect" you from a would be assassin?

That is what I would also like to know, Boogaloo. Either the guns are locked up and inaccessible or they are in your bag or by the bed for quick access. If they are within easy reach then surely children and teenagers can easily get hold of them? So what is the answer?