Neopronouns

VioletSky

Lucca

Yes they do. I would listen to a valid argumeng but you basically just said "you are wrong"

galaxy

Blimey

Because I can teach 4 year olds all their sounds and all about digraphs and split digraphs and trigraphs while simultaneously teaching them all the ways phonics is absolutely illogical nonsense

There is a whole long list of words that cannot be sounded out at all and must be learned by sight.

Then there are sounds that sound completely different to each other. Examples:

th. Thistle and Then
oo. Look and food

There are many more, the entirety of which is completely illogical and ridiculous but that's literally the first step before we get anywhere near adverbials and extended noun phrases and they all get it, autistic children included unless they are non verbal.

Pronouns in gender neutral form or in the singular or plural do not seem to compare.

I'd explain to that child that, they are like names and nicknames which are also individual, some people prefer different pronouns and it might be difficult to remember or we might make mistakes but that's OK. Which is absolutely nothing to do with teaching anything about LGBTQ people

I tried a valid argument but to no avail.

Ilovecheese

VioletSky

glorianny yes it's only a small drop in a complicated language

Gagajo a lot of mainstream platforms have removed groups and forums where people were actively discriminating, mumsnet has much fewer community guidelines but that's probably subject to change at some point

These zealots really are policing what women are allowed to talk about. Where is this leading?

To Hell in a handcart, if you ask me.

In what way is a discussion 'discriminatory'? Doesn't discrimination have to be based on an action? The MN thread is about someone's child (I think he is a teenager) struggling with exams because his autism and dyslexia make following counter-intuitive or confusing descriptions of situations involving individuals and groups all using the same pronouns, or being referred to by ones that are not indicative of their sex. How is that hate speech, discrimination (other than against the boy himself) or in need of tightened forum rules?

Galaxy

No I was widening the discussion about people with disabilities and their families in the case of children, having to educate everyone. It's quite a delicate subject for some. If you look at the boards on MN relating to disabilities you will see some parents being very forthright about it

Thats. funny because you criticised my post about children before
The people responsible for helping her to understand. What on earth are you talking about. Shes an adult woman, with a career etc she doesnt need anyone to help her understand.

Could it be that when asked questions about your "friend" that you are unable to answer you then choose to widen the discussion.
The questions of course remain
Why wouldn't you simply tell your autistic friend to ask which pronoun someone prefers? (Because this would undoubtedly ease her anxiety)
And why wouldn't you urge her to share the reason for her difficulties- her autism.? (which would help everyone understand her difficulties)

I don't know how I created such an intelligent child when I cannot successfully share a single screenshot

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202301/medium-172669-screenshot-20230121-134715-whatsapp.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202301/medium-697650-screenshot-20230121-134715-whatsapp.jpg

Well there you have it, eldest AC, A* at English A level and studying English at University

It wasn't a very thought out argument galaxy in regards to your friend

In regards to children, I would hope those teaching them aren't letting their political opinions influence a child's education

I would never do that

Galaxy

MN will be fine. Gender critical belief is protected under law so there are legal protections available in terms of their ability to discuss the subject.

I'm sure. Their decisions to delete MN members who don't adhere to GC beliefs isn't exactly open to debate though. Certainly isn't equality.

I've done my bit in the past and that also attracted comments off complete strangers...

Oh and I hope you are taking part in as many consultations as possible on how best to engage parents Jane, come on, get your finger out.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat it

I am not talking about GC beliefs, people are entitled to their beliefs, and i not being personal or attacking anyone's beliefs by disagreeing with them.

What I have said several times is that discrimination is not protected by the equality act and neither is hate speech.

If a community group or forum (which were independently moderated by GC feminists by the way) was doing nothing to disagree with or disallow active discrimination and hate speech... they lost said forum for not following community standards

It's just the fact of the matter

Under 20 specialist spaces for autism across my whole city Jane

People treat you like it's a zoo actually it's one of the worst things about being a parent of a child with a disability, people want explanations, even people you don't know.

No I was widening the discussion about people with disabilities and their families in the case of children, having to educate everyone. It's quite a delicate subject for some. If you look at the boards on MN relating to disabilities you will see some parents being very forthright about it

Galaxy

Yes I hear that a lot towards parents of children with disabilities, I am not sure how I feel about it, I have certainly heard the viewpoint that it is just another job that those parents are expected to do, you know inform and educate everyone whilst managing all the thousands of other things, such as endless appointments, telling their story to professionals for the millionth time, etc. I sometimes ask parents to share their story in training etc but as long as it doesnt become an expectation I suppose.

I thought it wasn't a child but an adult you were talking about. If her disability is the reason she struggles with pronouns surely urging her to be open about it can only help her.

I always felt uncomfortable about the position put forward of inclusion in mainstream being there to educate the normals. Why on earth should inclusion be presented in such a way>? why not be open minded enough to recognise that for a lot of children special school is more inclusive

The polite pronoun to use is mostly a problem for personal relationships. It's no more difficult to remember someone's new pronoun than to remember someone's new name

In academic dialogue it's understood that 'mankind', 'man', and 'God', are traditionally masculine gender and use of 'he' or even 'Him' for God, will not detract from what someone is arguing.

Yes I hear that a lot towards parents of children with disabilities, I am not sure how I feel about it, I have certainly heard the viewpoint that it is just another job that those parents are expected to do, you know inform and educate everyone whilst managing all the thousands of other things, such as endless appointments, telling their story to professionals for the millionth time, etc. I sometimes ask parents to share their story in training etc but as long as it doesnt become an expectation I suppose.

Sorry don't know why that came up as a reply to Ilove cheese it isn't.

Ilovecheese

VioletSky

glorianny yes it's only a small drop in a complicated language

Gagajo a lot of mainstream platforms have removed groups and forums where people were actively discriminating, mumsnet has much fewer community guidelines but that's probably subject to change at some point

These zealots really are policing what women are allowed to talk about. Where is this leading?

Galaxy you might also then like to discuss with your friend how she feels about revealing her condition to the people she has problems with and explaining why she has problems. I think the more people talk about hidden disabilities the better.

As a teenager my DS had problems revealing his dyslexia to anyone. He has got past this as an adult and now has no problems discussing it with others. He also realises that revealing his dyslexia, and having people wonder about it, because of the field he works in, is helpful in overcoming the common perception that dyslexic's are just thick.

That's without getting into the debate about who you would trust to decide what an extremist belief is. Good luck with that. I am sure you would be happy for Elon Musk to make that decision or you know Trump or Farage if they managed a social media site. Unfortunatrly there generally arent simple solutions to complex problems.

Gender critical beliefs are protected by law. If you mean Twitter then all of the GC accounts that I know of have been re instated.
Recognising you cant change sex is not an extremist belief.

They have also removed INCEL groups and forums due to the same concerns

It's not about women, it's about extremism

The reason mainstream platforms have removed GC groups and forums is due to escrimation and concerns of hate speech leading to violence.

If MN end up with the same concerns that could lead to more guidelines on that topic

If more guidelines means taking up extreme amounts of time in moderation then yes GC feminists could lose that as a platform

It makes no difference to me, I have an account now but have commented less than a handful of times and not on that issue

Realistically though this has absolutely nothing to do with preferred pronouns or GC beliefs

If people ask for gender neutral pronouns I see no motivation for denying them. I only see benefits in terms of equality

I will talk about anything I like VS that doesnt break guidelines.

VioletSky

glorianny yes it's only a small drop in a complicated language

Gagajo a lot of mainstream platforms have removed groups and forums where people were actively discriminating, mumsnet has much fewer community guidelines but that's probably subject to change at some point

These zealots really are policing what women are allowed to talk about. Where is this leading?