Neopronouns

VioletSky

Molly

Whatever makes you happy

doodledog

We will discuss when you become all powerful and may write into law what is essentially a belief system that is unproven

Until then I will leave it to those looking for genuine equality and best practise for the treatment and inclusion of those with gender dysphoria

*yawn

I'm going to hate me when I'm tired tomorrow

Must stop looking at these threads lol

Eh? I don’t know what you are talking about.

‘When I am all powerful’? Write into law?

I’m not remotely interested in power, and I don’t need to write anything into law - the law clearly states that a belief in sex being absolute is a protected one. It is, in fact, you who is ignoring the law!

‘Lol’ as much as you like - the law is very clear on that.

VioletSky

Molly

Whatever makes you happy.
VS
Your inability to reply always makes me happy-or it would if I really expected coherent answers from you.

Molly

Whatever makes you happy

doodledog

We will discuss when you become all powerful and may write into law what is essentially a belief system that is unproven

Until then I will leave it to those looking for genuine equality and best practise for the treatment and inclusion of those with gender dysphoria

*yawn

I'm going to hate me when I'm tired tomorrow

Must stop looking at these threads lol

Instead, imo, people should present however they like, as you say, and should be honest about which sex they are when it's important.

FN for president!

That's all most of us are after. I keep saying that I couldn't care less if men want to 'present as' women, even though IME women present very differently from one another. I'm not interested in restricting people's options where they don't harm others.

What I do object to is men saying that they are women, and to changes in the law, custom and practice and the language to compel people to collude in this fiction.

VioletSky

Molly

I don't play the twisting words to my own advantage game

It's just not for me

All the time VS. You just did.

Molly

I don't play the twisting words to my own advantage game

It's just not for me

VS
JKR might well think you’re a bit woowoo as you put it, but do you think it’s right to attributed things to her that she has never said and that you don’t even know if she’s thought?

Glorianny

Oh dear now non-binary people are a threat to society!
Who knew??? I must take care not to meet any more of them.
Maybe they will take over the world!!!
Maybe they will stop children identifying and classifying people by gender norms.
Maybe you won't be able to tell who is a boy by what they are wearing!
Maybe boys will wear make up and jewellery but we won't know they are boys.
Maybe girls will wear trousers and shirts and look like boys. Maybe the gender norms which restrict our society will be overwhelmed by non-binary people.
But hang on!!! isn't that what some people want? A society where people are treated equally? A society where gender isn't an issue. Ah well back to the drawing board

You remember how we used to have a polite agreement about toilets & changing rooms, so that people used the correct ones for their sex?
And a polite agreement for things like women-only self-defence classes or women-only creative writing groups or women-only swimming sessions, so that men didn't turn up to those things?
Why can't we still have that, regardless of how people look?
It would involve some trust, of course, if we genuinely can't tell which sex someone is by looking at them but it wouldn't involve obviously male people insisting on being accepted as if they are women.

How about single-sex hospital wards and single-sex prisons? It's very unlikely that those in charge of such places don't know the sex of people they are dealing with, however they present themselves.

A few pages back, on this thread, Glorianny, you said 'No-one is talking about changing sex' but that's exactly what is being claimed - that people are the sex they choose and society should be organised around their choices.

Instead, imo, people should present however they like, as you say, and should be honest about which sex they are when it's important.

Rosie51

No response to me then Glorianny? Thought not, sauce for the goose never equates to sauce for the gander with you does it?

Sorry Rosie51 been out and only just read your post.

Your answer I think is perfectly acceptable.
I don't understand why"Where does she surf ?" is rude but then good manners for one person differs from another's.
I don't see anything wrong in women wanting to explain to a transwoman how they feel. I just don't know many who would want to do so.

Now I'm off this thread. Some of the people who reduce everything to trans issues, purely so they can castigate trans people have begun their usual rants,. No point in discussing with such entrenched views.

Well, the story of Bobby and his bullying gender-neutral mates was a bit odd, I agree. The rest of us were just joining in.

Even JK Rowling would think GC feminists have gone too woowoo on this thread

True feminism is alive and kicking here yes it is Mollgo and a good job too.

VioletSky

Gagajo

Feminism has withered and died here

It started to shrivel when women were told that their sex literally counts for nothing, and is what men tell them it is.

That's about as dystopian as it gets, and sadly it's no fantasy. Not for the women, anyway. Arguably, for autogynephile men it is, of course; but that can of worms has finally been opened in the mainstream media by Nick Timothy in the Telegraph.

The article is here:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/22/britain-becoming-sick-trans-debate-facts-can-cure/

I suspect it will be behind a paywall, so the relevant bit is: . . . . nobody stops to ask how many such men are moved to act in these ways through their own sexual desire. Autogynephilia, the feeling of sexual arousal some men feel as they pretend to be women, is according to some researchers behind many or even most cases of gender dysphoria among those born as men. It is legitimate to ask whether non-consenting women ought to be participants in such sexual fantasies.

(Nick Timothy was joint Chief of Staff under Teresa May)

VioletSky

Gagajo

Feminism has withered and died here.

True feminism is alive and kicking here.
The dystopian versions of feminism preferred by some, is using violence and hatred of females to promote itself.
Some so-called feminists, often with derivative names, support that hatred, or pretend it isn’t happening. On here it’s quite clear who belongs to which group.
As a feminist I support females and decry the violence against them, perpetrated and supported by the other group.
And you?

Gagajo

Feminism has withered and died here

VioletSky

This had gotten very bizarre

Dystopian fantasy.

Doodle

Like you Doodledog I live like me. I wouldn’t be able to describe how I feel as a woman I just am one but I suppose I can understand some things that only females experience like giving birth or hysterectomy or the dreaded menopause.

Oh yes. We have the female experience, and know what that feels like, but just as we can't know what the male experience is like, men can't 'feel like' us. I think that for most people, most of the time we just feel like people. I'm not consciously aware that I'm a woman all the time - it's just a part of who I am - but without being a woman, nobody can know that they 'feel like' one, so I don't know how people can know that they aren't either male or female.

As Galaxy says, opting out of being female might seem like a good plan, for all the reasons she gives; but why the need to insist that everyone knows about it? As we've all said, in a meeting people are referred to by name, not pronoun, so insisting that we all declare one can only be to force attendees to comply with trans ideology.

Was anyone else brought up to believe that calling people by a pronoun in their presence was rude? I would have been in trouble if I'd referred to someone as 'she' when they were there. 'She is the cat's mother' was always the retort. The rule didn't seem to apply to men, though - I'm not sure why.

This had gotten very bizarre

Glorianny seems to live in a narrow world, peopled by aggressive non-binary people who would insist on things that would make others uncomfortable.
Hesheit obviously finds it acceptable that it’s OK for anyone except those she approves of to be put in her invented scenarios and made to feel uncomfortable.
Does trisher go into these invented groups and announce that hesheit’s whatever sex hesheit’s decided to be today?

I could quite enjoy inventing these situations.
e.g. We have to work in threes so,
Bobby (dressed as a man, open shirted and flashing his six pack) asks me to refer to him as they because he’s non binary (doesn’t relate to either sex).
My partner in the other side, also called Bobby but quite definitely female, also dressed as a man (open-shirted and flashing her two and six pack) has also asked to be referred to as they.
I stand up and announce that Bobby and Bobby are non binary and hope you will refer to them both as they.
They thank me very much for my kind introduction and I leave them to get on with the meeting. I can imagine that no-one at the meeting will have the slightest difficulty in referring to the Bobbys as they.
They will probably be referred to quite a lot in any conversations.

Like you Doodledog I live like me. I wouldn’t be able to describe how I feel as a woman I just am one but I suppose I can understand some things that only females experience like giving birth or hysterectomy or the dreaded menopause.

I think the issue might be that before we can understand non-binary we'd have to accept that men and women behave and 'feel' in entirely different ways, so that 'being' a woman is one thing and 'being' a man is something else. Not everyone accepts this. I don't. I think that the idea of 'gendered' behaviour is old-fashioned and was dying out until recently, when it was hijacked by the trans lobby, which taught people that they could be 'in the wrong body', or 'feel like' one sex or the other.

Someone who doesn't 'feel like' they think a woman would feel (whatever that is), but also doesn't 'feel like' a man, could struggle with that, and (particularly if they are Autistic and need to have a label) declare themselves non-binary. IMO most people are non-binary, if being binary means women wearing lipstick whilst baking cakes in heels and a pinny, and men tinkering with cars between watching football and working to be breadwinner.

What I'd like to know (amongst other things) is how if I, as a woman, don't know what being a woman feels like (I just live as myself), how can a man have the first idea, any more than I can have the first idea what it feels like to be a man?

I have just read about 6 people describing what being non binary means to them looking for greater insight. Whilst being very passionate about being non binary and the freedom it gives them to be themselves I cannot understand how this is any different to anyone living their own lives and behaving in the way they want to be. The words they use all seem to be the same without actually meaning anything specific.

I don’t understand any of it. Not saying it’s wrong just I can’t get my head round it.

No response to me then Glorianny? Thought not, sauce for the goose never equates to sauce for the gander with you does it?

a society where everyone is equal but some are more equal than others springs to mind.

Who said any of that?