Has anyone watched the 90 minute BBC documentary on Shamima Begum?

Gsm please could you answer this question. Is it either legal or moral for one country to insist another country must give citizenship to an individual? Particularly when the country in question has a clear legal ruling which means that country does not recognise that citizenship.
Bangladeshi law is clear. Dual citizenship is not legal. In order to have Bangladeshi citizenship the individual must renounce the other citizenship.

Frankly I give up. I had no idea we had such a surfeit of highly qualified lawyers on GN, all KCs I expect but too modest to say so, experts in domestic and international law.

The UK has broken International Law, that is not the same as acting illegally under UK law, however this is a country that as a member of the UN used to uphold International law, now it seems not to.

She had her parents’ Bangladeshi nationality at the relevant time. You obviously consider that the Tribunal didn’t understand the law and therefore reached an incorrect conclusion. Have you read the full open report of the decision? A link was given upthread. Rather time consuming, 76 pages iirc, but worthwhile. I highly recommend it.

You don't have to be a fancy Lawyer to know the Law in this case. She does not have another nationality, so they were not allowed to strip her of her British one.

The Tribunal decided that the HS had acted lawfully. Clearly some posters think they are better qualified to decide that issue, even with only part of the evidence.

Zoejory

I've been all over the place with this case. Initially I was totally opposed to her ever returning. Time has made me less decisive.

Her attitude toward the Manchester bombing wa shocking but she was apparently in a room with other isis members who won't have been placed of she'd been berating atrocities in the UK.

Her interviews have possibly been her downfall.

However the fact is she was 15. Many of us appear to have been terribly mature at 15 and wouldn't have done such a thing. When I was 15 I was a horror. Not Muslim so I wouldn't have joined up but it's wrong to suggest we all behaved and thought impeccably responsibly at that age. I actually ran away with a couple of footballers to London when 13. Not my best move.

We have sympathy with Virginia Giuffre, as we should, but she was 16 when she went to work and 17 when she met PA. Not many people will shout at her and tell her she knew exactly what she was doing.

So I think that Begum should be allowed to return. She'll probably have to wait until we have a new Government , Our legal system has its hands tied somewhat at present.

Excellent article in the Guardian. Refreshing change from the Mail

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/22/the-guardian-view-on-shamima-begum-stateless-and-detained-in-syria

Why have other countries repatriated similar?

That’s a good editorial, Zoejory

Other foreign governments have brought back families of IS terrorists, recognising their constitutional rights as well as implicitly admitting that such people are their responsibility. This mature behaviour is apparently too much to ask for from Britain’s government, which relies on an electoral strategy of demonisation and fearmongering. Ms Begum’s case reveals that the Tories view the law not as a fundamental part of the UK’s constitutional system, but as an unnecessary obstacle to the exercise of executive power

I’m afraid the Tribunal disagrees with you.

Whitewavemark2

Again

Yup!

If she were brought back here and put in a Court of Law for a jury to decide her fate there would be no evidence. She was in Syria. Any supposed atrocities would be reported, discussed and dismissed as hearsay. Ergo, she would never be sentenced.

Again

"Bangladeshi authorities said Begum did not have dual citizenship and had never visited the South Asian nation. They also ruled out granting her Bangladeshi nationality. International law forbids countries from making people stateless by revoking their only citizenship."

The UK has broken International law.

Germanshepherdsmum

Why?

Because you have to ask that question - it makes it even more disturbing.

Why?

Doodledog

Germanshepherdsmum

Maybe white British citizens are rather less likely to belong to such organisations.
Begum is stateless as a result of having failed to make the necessary application for continuing Bangladeshi citizenship before the age of 21, not as a result of the HS’s actions which have been found to be lawful.

And maybe not. Far Right terrorism is also a threat, and its adherents are much more likely to be white.

That post by Gsm is truly disturbing,

Why would she have done- she knows very little of the country and has never lived there, no speaks the language!

Germanshepherdsmum

Maybe white British citizens are rather less likely to belong to such organisations.
Begum is stateless as a result of having failed to make the necessary application for continuing Bangladeshi citizenship before the age of 21, not as a result of the HS’s actions which have been found to be lawful.

And maybe not. Far Right terrorism is also a threat, and its adherents are much more likely to be white.

Zoejory I think many of us have struggled with this. The actions of ISIS and her apparent agreement with their cause was vile, she doesn't come across as penitent or humble so she doesn't help her cause in any way. I've listened to the podcasts and thought most of the time she seems cold and detached, then I think about the things she has witnessed and what her life must have been like from 15 and I start to see a "survivor". However, none of that really matters, it's about how we, as a country, deal with people and tbh there's been lots that I have have found very difficult. The Windrush fiasco was appalling and people have still not been compensated, the way we are housing child migrants so they can be "spirited away" by criminal gangs and no-one seems to care, this business with SB is just another example. If other countries take responsibility for people like her then we should too.

I've been all over the place with this case. Initially I was totally opposed to her ever returning. Time has made me less decisive.

Her attitude toward the Manchester bombing wa shocking but she was apparently in a room with other isis members who won't have been placed of she'd been berating atrocities in the UK.

Her interviews have possibly been her downfall.

However the fact is she was 15. Many of us appear to have been terribly mature at 15 and wouldn't have done such a thing. When I was 15 I was a horror. Not Muslim so I wouldn't have joined up but it's wrong to suggest we all behaved and thought impeccably responsibly at that age. I actually ran away with a couple of footballers to London when 13. Not my best move.

We have sympathy with Virginia Giuffre, as we should, but she was 16 when she went to work and 17 when she met PA. Not many people will shout at her and tell her she knew exactly what she was doing.

So I think that Begum should be allowed to return. She'll probably have to wait until we have a new Government , Our legal system has its hands tied somewhat at present.

Excellent article in the Guardian. Refreshing change from the Mail

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/22/the-guardian-view-on-shamima-begum-stateless-and-detained-in-syria

Why have other countries repatriated similar?

www.ohchr.org › ReportHRC48 › CSO

This is an interesting report about how many women have been abandoned by the UK government

WORD - OHCHRhttps://www.ohchr.org › ReportHRC48 › CSO

I was simply taking issue with the invention of words which I had not spoken. I don’t consider the decision unsatisfactory and I have no wish to see this woman return to Britain.

If anyone says "but she went willingly to join them" I will just say again, but she was 15, groomed for sexual exploitation and trafficked to Syria and we'll go round the same loop again. She became an adult whilst in Syria and by that time her choice and autonomy to make her own decisions had been taken from her.

No, GSM, that’s not a direct quote, but it’s hard to reach another conclusion from what you have said. Perhaps I’ve misunderstood you?

Indeed Delilah.
To quote from the Commission The Commission has found this to have been a case of concern and difficulty. The legal issues have been challenging and (in respects of grounds 1 and 2 novel) and the evaluative judgements on the essential questions often finely balanced.

Begum’s lawyers obviously do not agree this decision is “clear cut”and have said they will challenge it.